Ear plugs. Aaaargh

[TrevorR]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1451831007' post='2943751']
Anyone else have problems with people in bands who insist on wearing ear plugs? As a result of doing so, they can't hear subtleties or how loud they are relative to everyone else, so they crank the volume and the whole thing descends into chaos. When you suggest it would be better to take them out and for everyone to play at a sensible level, they bleat about damaging their hearing (they don't seem able to grasp that wearing plugs is only going to increase the problem, for others if not for them). Mad.
[/quote]

The problem here isn't with wearing ear plugs, the problem here is with band mates being unwilling to compromise in an intelligent way and being all uppity about it.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1451832019' post='2943767']
I can see the logic here, I always set mine and the bands volume without ear plugs then put them in, it certainly tempting to fiddle with the eq and volume with ear plugs in. but just take them out for a second and hear the difference, and yes I have got custom ear plugs at £125
[/quote]

Paul's comment is by far the right way to go. I've also played with (guitarists) who are similarly self centred and unteachable. The band should set their levels at an acceptable gig level which balances well across the band in the sound check and the need to increase volume after that should be seen as the exception not the rule. All too often it becomes a volume bidding war. As others have said, if you need to tweak do it after popping out a plug to hear your real volume.

Also, proper plugs are an investment - whether you're taking £20 Alpines or £200 custom moulded jobs - and frankly, as others have said, the foam ones are only good for deadening sound and not for listening to or playing music at all!

[JTUK]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1451838044' post='2943852']
To be fair, bar staff aren't standing next to the snare drum.

At least, not at any of the gigs I play.
[/quote]

Neither am I... I refuse to squeeze in next to the drums with a cymbal in my ear...

But just iike there may be retrospective claims in the workplace...I can see someone (staff)
sueing the pub for hearing loss at some point.

[PaulWarning]

you have to set levels according to the drummer, our drummer is fairly loud (he's not miced up) then the rest of us set volumes accordingly, which means in a small pub venue we are loud, but hey it's rock and roll

[discreet]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1451841804' post='2943911']
you have to set levels according to the drummer, our drummer is fairly loud (he's not miced up) then the rest of us set volumes accordingly, which means in a small pub venue we are loud, but hey it's rock and roll
[/quote]

As has been said many times on this forum, a good drummer can moderate his own levels and can always play with hotrods or whatever, but in the real world the majority of bands do not have a drummer with the necessary skills to do this.

So generally yes, the levels are set according to the level of acoustic drums - which is reasonable, as long as the drummer isn't a shed-builder. What I don't get are pub bands who insist on micing up the drums as if at a large club, which means the whole band is way over the top volume-wise. What the hell is that all about?

[ambient]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1451842091' post='2943915']
What I don't get are pub bands who insist on micing up the drums as if at a large club, which means the whole band is way over the top volume-wise. What the hell is that all about?
[/quote]

And then said band are puzzled as to why the room is empty.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1451842091' post='2943915']
As has been said many times on this forum, a good drummer can moderate his own levels and can always play with hotrods or whatever, but in the real world the majority of bands do not have a drummer with the necessary skills to do this.

So generally yes, the levels are set according to the level of acoustic drums - which is reasonable, as long as the drummer isn't a shed-builder. What I don't get are pub bands who insist on micing up the drums as if at a large club, which means the whole band is way over the top volume-wise. What the hell is that all about?
[/quote]agreed, our drummer and a lot others enjoy hitting things hard, it's what they do, saw a band last night where the drummer miced up the kit in a pub, the prominent sound was a thudding bass drum, totally unnecessary

[Delberthot]

I played for years in a band with a drummer that could not control his volume and tended to overplay all of the time so I began wearing ear plugs to every gig as having a large china symbal battered right next to my left ear wasn't my idea of fun or going home with ringing in my ears.

Thankfully I am now in the position of playing with a drummer who can control her volume and now only wear one ear plug in my left ear not fully in to slightly attenuate the high frequencies from the symbals. I am now enjoying things more and not having to crank the top end to hear myself clearly with the ear plugs in and the stage volume is at a sensible level now that we can all turn back down again.

I actually have the opposite problem to most of having a fantastic guitarist right next to me who plays too quietly and it's only when he kicks in the boost for solos that I can hear him properly.

[JTUK]

Some pubs are too small for music... and bands should accept that and so should the pub itself.

I'd say something like 50mtr2 is a minimum..for the room, not including bar...so they either shouldn't get a
license...(which is a good reason for having them back, IMO) and they can't really afford bands anyway..in any sense..!!

[paulbass]

As a matter of interest what are the best earplugs and where can you get them from?

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1451843737' post='2943944']
Some pubs are too small for music... and bands should accept that and so should the pub itself.

I'd say something like 50mtr2 is a minimum..for the room, not including bar...so they either shouldn't get a
license...(which is a good reason for having them back, IMO) and they can't really afford bands anyway..in any sense..!!
[/quote]then we wouldn't have hardly anywhere to gig, plus it's a lot more fun playing to a crowded small room than a half empty big one

[discreet]

[quote name='Delberthot' timestamp='1451843147' post='2943934']
I actually have the opposite problem to most of having a fantastic guitarist right next to me who plays too quietly and it's only when he kicks in the boost for solos that I can hear him properly.
[/quote]

What are you paying him? I'll double it.

[JTUK]

ACS has fitting centres all over...they are decent at around £160 a set.

It is money for old rope tho...as the moulds are easy to make... or cheap..and the attentuators/filters
must also be dirt cheap.

You're paying for a 'specialist' ear mould fitter tho..?? :lol:

[JTUK]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1451845179' post='2943965']
then we wouldn't have hardly anywhere to gig, plus it's a lot more fun playing to a crowded small room than a half empty big one
[/quote]

Too many pubs and bands doing music anyway...which is what keeps the price down.

The market is saturated and I've always said doing away with the license was a short sighted move..

There is no premium for it... when music is so cheap and plentiful.

[skej21]

Theres a difference between playing with musicians who (rightly) insist on using ear protection and playing with inconsiderate morons who use it as an excuse to max out their ridiculous 'you'd never need anything this big' amp and blow everyone's faces off in the rehearsal room.

Luckily, I've never had an experience with the latter because I would never end up playing for a band with people who were that inconsiderate of the music!

[paulbass]

Thanks JTUK, there happens to be a ACS centre just down the road from me. I'm getting some tomorrow.

[phil.c60]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1451839555' post='2943877']
Neither am I... I refuse to squeeze in next to the drums with a cymbal in my ear...

But just iike there may be retrospective claims in the workplace...I can see someone (staff)
sueing the pub for hearing loss at some point.
[/quote]

Lucky You. I squeeze in whenever I need to and to avoid my ears ringing from my (not overly loud) drummer's cymbals/snare I always wear my ACS pros. And as for that meaning I turn up too loud: you are setting the relative volume. You turn up till it sounds about right, Having said that, we do a short sound check and I don't put them in but I wear them throughout the gig. and we are not a loud band. As for "some pubs are too small for a live band" are you serious? What are you, a symphony orchestra?
If they want us, they can have us!

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1451845597' post='2943970']
Too many pubs and bands doing music anyway...which is what keeps the price down.

The market is saturated and I've always said doing away with the license was a short sighted move..

There is no premium for it... when music is so cheap and plentiful.
[/quote]I think we may have had this discussion before, we'll have to agree to differ on this one

[gary mac]

I do the same as PaulWarning, sound check without ear plugs but then use them for the gig.

I enjoy playing at what I feel is a sensible volume, if the band really gels and is a tight unit, then it will sound powerful, which to my way of thinking is much better than just being loud.

[discreet]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1451849094' post='2944034']
...if the band really gels and is a tight unit, then it will sound powerful, which to my way of thinking is much better than just being loud.
[/quote]

Absolutely, you don't have to be loud to sound heavy.

[Roger2611]

I think I have been lucky in recent years, the old covers band always played at a sensible volume, I was more likely to be telling the guitarist to turn up a bit!

Yodaclub are very good, we are all a bit older so are hopefully a little more sensible, vocal harmonies are a key ingredient of our sound so the singers have to be able to hear themselves through what are, on a lot of occasions, monitors that are not of the same class as our amps, so we have to be controlled on stage.

I do have earplugs but don't like them and am glad I don't have to use them, I am frustrated that I did damage my hearing when I was younger playing in an eight piece band and being stuck next to a dirty great ride cymbal night after night....I do have noticeable Tinnitus but seem to be lucky in that I can zone it out 99% of the time but I know the damage is done.....I can sleep next to a phone charger and not hear it whereas Mrs2611 can hear it from her side of the bed!

[alyctes]

I didn't go to many loud gigs, and I have never run the headphones excessively loud. I've still got hearing damage.

We used to have a guitarist who suggested that rehearsals should be done without a microphone for the singer. It worked for us.

[JTUK]

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1451847091' post='2943998']
Lucky You. I squeeze in whenever I need to and to avoid my ears ringing from my (not overly loud) drummer's cymbals/snare I always wear my ACS pros. And as for that meaning I turn up too loud: you are setting the relative volume. You turn up till it sounds about right, Having said that, we do a short sound check and I don't put them in but I wear them throughout the gig. and we are not a loud band. As for "some pubs are too small for a live band" are you serious? What are you, a symphony orchestra?
If they want us, they can have us!
[/quote]

Yep, I'm serious... some pubs are too small to have live music.
Personally, I wont play them as it just doesn't work, moneywise or as
a gig I'd look forward to doing.

Most players I know will say the same thing.
But I've always ben convinced that doing away with the license was a bad thing all round.

Some of the reasons I've mentioned above

[Woodinblack]

Not sure how wearing earplugs (as I do occasionally) makes people turn things up? I turn mine up until I am level with the drums and guitars. With earplugs on everything gets quieter, not just me, so the balance is the same.

If someone turns up, tell them to turn down and

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1451834154' post='2943797'] So he ended up hearing himself at exactly the same volume as before the ear plugs were inserted, but now everyone else was deafened by him. [/quote]

that is just idiotic. Presumably that didn't last past the tuning stage?

[leroydiamond]

[quote name='paulbass' timestamp='1451846400' post='2943983']
Thanks JTUK, there happens to be a ACS centre just down the road from me. I'm getting some tomorrow.
[/quote]
A fantastic investment and the best way to go in terms of hearing protection IMO

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1451855034' post='2944124']
that is just idiotic. Presumably that didn't last past the tuning stage?
[/quote]

We did get rather annoyed with him, and he didn`t turn up to that level again. Always moaned about not being able to hear himself, even though he was still for one standing in front of his cab (so nearest to it and we could all still hear him fine), and for two, still louder than the rest of us.