i can smell a 350W (35W) con

[ben_eat_pie]

many of these heaps of junk for sale...

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUITAR-AMPLIFIER-350W-PORTABLE-BASS-AMP-8-SPEAKER-NEW_W0QQitemZ260286340639QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260286340639"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUITAR-AMPLIFIER-350...tem260286340639[/url]

how misleading is that.?

[wotnwhy]

what the hell is PMPO? new to me!

Piss-poor Made-up Power Output?

[Toasted]

pmpo is "peak maximum power output".... I think.

[Dubs]

Ah this is an absolute classic! I love ripping the sh*t out of Saturday workers at Dixons et al with regards to their absolute and total lack of any technical audio knowledge to do with this type of thing.

PMPO = Peak Music Power Output. It’s a very unscientific measurement that doesn’t even have a standard way of measuring it but is often measured as being the absolute peak power output that is possibly achievable of the amplifier or combined sum of the amplifiers in a system (often used with budget home cinema systems and very cheap PC speakers etc). It’s basically bullshit and meaningless. Manufactures don’t even agree on what “PMPO” stands for (exemplifying how much of a useless term it really is) – it has also been known as Peak Momentary Performance Output. RMS (root mean square) is measured by averaging the amplifier’s instantaneous power output over a prolonged period of time. PMPO can be measured over half a second, i.e if the amplifier/driver has a momentary peak or survives a split second of 350W then the (sh*t) manufacture’s might label it as “350W PMPO” – totally pointless and never going to happen in a ‘real world’ application. Basically, steer clear of ANYTHING that is advertised as having a PMPO value as it’s going to be totally sh*t, or, if you’re going to buy it with this knowledge then fair play to you as you know what it is that you're buying.

I’m sh*t at explaining stuff, but I know what mean I’ll find some good links for a proper scientific explanation…

Wiki - [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMPO"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PMPO[/url]
...and something else - [url="http://cbll.net/articles/pmpo"]http://cbll.net/articles/pmpo[/url]

Edited September 15, 2008 by benwhiteuk

[noelk27]

Reminds me of when speaker manufacturers present a frequency-response curve to advocate the performance of their product - in isolation, without detailing all the specifics of setup - distances, angles, etc, etc - completely meaningless in terms of providing information. But don't they all just love printing one in their glossy marketing brochures.

[Dubs]

[quote name='noelk27' post='284586' date='Sep 15 2008, 10:18 PM']Reminds me of when speaker manufacturers present a frequency-response curve to advocate the performance of their product - in isolation, without detailing all the specifics of setup - distances, angles, etc, etc - completely meaningless in terms of providing information. But don't they all just love printing one in their glossy marketing brochures.[/quote]

One ‘top’ brand that I totally despise is Bose, who market their products really well but sell absolute sh*t…try and find any detailed specifications about their products…they don’t publish them because their shocking when you relate them to the cost of what they sell for. Their other reason for not publishing the technical specifications relating to their amplifiers and speakers is because Amar Bose, the founder of the Bose Corporation, doesn’t believe that there is a measurable relevance to the perceived quality in relation to the measurable acoustic or electrical performance/specification…what a crock of sh*t, and IMO, what a shoddy way of hiding the relatively poor performance of their products.

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='benwhiteuk' post='284594' date='Sep 15 2008, 10:32 PM']One ‘top’ brand that I totally despise is Bose, who market their products really well but sell absolute sh*t…try and find any detailed specifications about their products…they don’t publish them because their shocking when you relate them to the cost of what they sell for. Their other reason for not publishing the technical specifications relating to their amplifiers and speakers is because Amar Bose, the founder of the Bose Corporation, doesn’t believe that there is a measurable relevance to the perceived quality in relation to the measurable acoustic or electrical performance/specification…what a crock of sh*t, and IMO, what a shoddy way of hiding the relatively poor performance of their products. [/quote]


Have you ever been to a Bose shop with a cinema inside?

I was given a very impressive demonstration.

They may be over priced but there staff could teach guitar shops a thing or two about customer service, they gave me the full demonstration because i was interested even though they knew I had no intention of buying.

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='284862' date='Sep 16 2008, 11:23 AM']Have you ever been to a Bose shop with a cinema inside?

I was given a very impressive demonstration.

They may be over priced but there staff could teach guitar shops a thing or two about customer service, they gave me the full demonstration because i was interested even though they knew I had no intention of buying.[/quote]

Perhaps its because they know that you'll then promptly run off and tell all your friends how good Bose is. And the myth continues to perpetuate itself.

The reason why the demonstration is so impressive is that they have complete control over the setup. Good luck trying to replicate that demonstration in your own living room.

Additionally, did you trace the wires back to check that the speakers were actually plugged into the Bose amplifier? I've heard rumours that they run it all back into a control room which is hidden from public view.

S.P.

[Waldo]

[quote name='stylonpilson' post='284894' date='Sep 16 2008, 11:52 AM']Perhaps its because they know that you'll then promptly run off and tell all your friends how good Bose is. And the myth continues to perpetuate itself.

The reason why the demonstration is so impressive is that they have complete control over the setup. Good luck trying to replicate that demonstration in your own living room.

Additionally, did you trace the wires back to check that the speakers were actually plugged into the Bose amplifier? I've heard rumours that they run it all back into a control room which is hidden from public view.

S.P.[/quote]

I too have heard that rumor. They're nothing but snake oil merchants who are allowed to get away with it.

[EBS_freak]

Question.

Who buys Bose?

Answer.

The same person who would buy B&O

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='284904' date='Sep 16 2008, 12:01 PM']Question.

Who buys Bose?

Answer.

The same person who would buy B&O[/quote]

Heh, I once bought a B&O telephone (I think it was the Beocom 1600). The sound quality was absolutely atrocious. I learned my lesson.

[url="http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html"]Here's a lengthy and well-reasoned article on Bose[/url]. If you're interested in skipping to the bit about the demonstration room, [url="http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html#fair"]it's here[/url].

S.P.

Edited September 16, 2008 by stylonpilson

[crez5150]

Bose suck C**K.... they made one product which stuck in this industry for years and their marketing money keeps them on people's install list's...... it's all marketing bullshit!

[tauzero]

A long long time ago, I read an article about the Bose 7-sided speakers. Those were a triumph of marketing over reality - apparently the drivers used in them were out of Fisher transistor radios.

[Dubs]

[quote name='waynepunkdude' post='284862' date='Sep 16 2008, 11:23 AM']Have you ever been to a Bose shop with a cinema inside?

I was given a very impressive demonstration.

They may be over priced but there staff could teach guitar shops a thing or two about customer service, they gave me the full demonstration because i was interested even though they knew I had no intention of buying.[/quote]

All of what I've written below is just my very biased opinion so take it with a pinch of salt

A friend of mine used to work for Bose in their Portsmouth (Gun Wharf) branch (no names mentioned for obvious reasons). He told me they were sh*t and why they are sh*t, and through looking into their products as research for aspects of my degree, I've be able to come to a reasoned conclusion about them and their products for myself. Yeah I’ve heard the demonstrations a few times, and in all honesty, I wasn’t really that impressed. It really did sound like a fairly cheap system to me. The lows weren’t that low (I’d be amazed if I heard anything below 30Hz) and horribly distorted, the highs weren’t defined/clear or crisp/sparkly and were also horribly distorted. The other people in there seemed impressed, but then I’d guess that they're used to a 50 quid PC World 5.1 system and they’ve never experienced anything that resembles quality in their own home. A big flaw that I can see in Bose's “Cube” speakers is that they’re not full range speakers, so how are they ever going to accurately reproduce the original audio?
The bottom line is, "Don't believe the hype". Do believe the hype about the JL Audio home cinema subwoofers such as the Gotham though

Bose sell incredibly poor performing home cinema/home audio gear in relation to what else is available to consumers on a similar financial level. Obviously this is a subjective comment so take it or leave it; it's just a reasoned opinion. I can’t knock their sales or marketing teams though…outstanding and impressive.


EDIT: JL Audio Gotham - [url="http://home.jlaudio.com/graphics/MultimediaSection/movies/JLA_HT.html"]http://home.jlaudio.com/graphics/Multimedi...ies/JLA_HT.html[/url]

Edited September 19, 2008 by benwhiteuk

[stingrayfan]

[quote name='Waldo' post='284896' date='Sep 16 2008, 11:54 AM']They're nothing but snake oil merchants who are allowed to get away with it.[/quote]
I've got a pair of Acoustimass speakers in my living room that sound great but don't take up any room - where's the con?