Rio Isolated Bass Track - is it John Taylor?

[RhysP]

Wasn't Rio recorded before he got all chummy with Bernard Edwards anyway?
That didn't happen until all that godawful Power Station supergroup bollocks.

[kusee pee]

I've never had a reason to believe it wasn't JT. The style of playing on the first two albums is pretty consistent and the line is pretty straightforward to play with fingers. Every time I've seen them live he plays it with fingers and it doesn't seem problematic at all. Harder to play with a pick IMO. The first two Duran albums were the reason I started playing bass. Great sound, prominent mix and a real mix of driving basslines and melodic/funky interplay. I don't think JT had got close to BE by 1982. By the time this was recorded Duran were just getting a larger following. He adopted a similar line on Last Chance On The Stairway which works even better to my ears.

The fact that he was the coolest looking and speaking dude in 80s pop helped distract from his bass playing quite easily.

[kusee pee]

[quote name='Old Man Riva' timestamp='1452441099' post='2949945']
Always liked this from the Rio album.. http://youtu.be/25m4P72FK6E

[/quote]

A great bassline. I love the harmonics thrown into the middle section. An example of the fact that JT took his playing seriously.

[RhysP]

[quote name='kusee pee' timestamp='1452446553' post='2950008']
I've never had a reason to believe it wasn't JT. The style of playing on the first two albums is pretty consistent and the line is pretty straightforward to play with fingers. Every time I've seen them live he plays it with fingers and it doesn't seem problematic at all. Harder to play with a pick IMO.
[/quote]

You're absolutely right, it's much harder to play with a pick. It just feels right when you play it with fingers.

There are so many great bass parts on that album - one of my favourite "put it on & play along" albums ever.

[White Cloud]

I always played it with finger style. Its a great line I but never really found it particularly difficult.

[Twincam]

[quote name='Old Man Riva' timestamp='1452441099' post='2949945']
Always liked this from the Rio album.. http://youtu.be/25m4P72FK6E

I think the bass line was actually played by Mark King using a plectrum belonging to Derek Forbes, along to a sequenced track put together by Rick Wakeman from Keith Emerson's sweat..

John Taylor was too busy applying blusher and chasing women to actually take part in proceedings.
[/quote]

Haha

[Twincam]

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1452442141' post='2949955']


Rubbish, it was Carol Kaye.

Rio, Girls on Film, Bad Boys...those synth stabs on A view to a kill ?

Carol Kaye.
[/quote]

Errm NO!
But Carol Kaye did claim to do them when it was actually Jamerson! Fact.....
Haha

[drTStingray]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1452432937' post='2949856']


He's a good player, and was a good player from the first track on the first album.
He's used lots of different basses over the years (Ricks, Wals, Kubickis, Peaveys) but was favouring Aria SB models at the time, which are very toppy, aggressive sounding basses. Play that line fingerstyle on an SB & that's what it sounds like.
[/quote]

Agreed - and I think it's fingerstyle and JT.

Yes, JT did/does have Bernard Edwards' Stingray - he talked about it in a BGM article a couple of years back and said he'd used it a lot for recording at that time.

[ahpook]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1452448384' post='2950029']
Errm NO!
But Carol Kaye did claim to do them when it was actually Jamerson! Fact.....
Haha
[/quote]

[RhysP]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1452449082' post='2950040']
Agreed - and I think it's fingerstyle and JT.

Yes, JT did/does have Bernard Edwards' Stingray - he talked about it in a BGM article a couple of years back and said he'd used it a lot for recording at that time.
[/quote]

Bernard Edwards bequeathed the Stingray to Taylor after his death in 1996.
Taylor also has Edwards' BC Rich Eagle bass now too - THAT'S the one I'd want to get my hands on.

[darkandrew]

I was going to question the authenticity of this track but listening to the rest of the mix (which you can hear in the background) it appears to be genuine, possibly a recording of a studio mix -featuring a count in and a proper ending (ie no fade out). Very interesting. I've got the "Classic Albums" DVD of Rio and if you're interested in that sort of thing, it's well worth a watch.

I also read an interview with Ian Little, producer of Duran Duran's single "Is there something I should know" where he admits to messing up the recording of Roger Taylor's drum tracks and having to get his engineer, Phil Thornallie (who just happened to also be the Cure's bass player at the time) to rebuild the tracks from samples. Whenever these rumours of JT not playing on DD recordings surface, I wonder if this is the cause of that rumour (ie. This story being inaccurately re-told plus people getting their Taylors mixed up).

Edited January 10, 2016 by darkandrew

[chardbass]

I believe JT has the bass that BE recorded Good Times on but a bass tech cut the old (full of funk) strings off and replaced them with a fresh set. Nooooooo!!

[CHW]

I have a vague memory of seeing a documentary about Duran Duran where JT was saying that I. The studio he played the verse with a pick and the chorus with fingers. He had to learn to do it all fingers live.

Re the whole they couldn't play thing. I have seen them state that at the time they toured the first album. That was the entirety of their repertoire. I decidedly remember them mentioning that as a band, they couldn't even play Johnny b Goode.

[TrevorR]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1452432937' post='2949856']


He's a good player, and was a good player from the first track on the first album.
He's used lots of different basses over the years (Ricks, Wals, Kubickis, Peaveys) but was favouring Aria SB models at the time, which are very toppy, aggressive sounding basses. Play that line fingerstyle on an SB & that's what it sounds like.
[/quote]

I'd second that emotion Rhys. Played an Aria SB700 for years (still got it) and it really did have that kind of punchy, middly sound when you pushed it and really dug in.

Whether that is the real bass (my vote - as to there being some slips, remember it was in pre Pro Tools days) or a play along it goes to show what a great bass line Rio is!

[RhysP]

[quote name='CHW' timestamp='1452463362' post='2950218']
Re the whole they couldn't play thing. I have seen them state that at the time they toured the first album. That was the entirety of their repertoire. I decidedly remember them mentioning that as a band, they couldn't even play Johnny b Goode.
[/quote]

I saw them on their first tour & the tracks from the first album were all that they played.
For encores they played most of them again.

Edited January 10, 2016 by RhysP

[MacDaddy]

8 years ago to the day, I posted this

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/11122-best-bass-players-of-new-romantic-era/page__st__30__p__117827#entry117827"]http://basschat.co.u...827#entry117827[/url]

The thread itself garnered some interest on a Duran Duran fansite

[url="http://duranduranboard.proboards.com/thread/16009/worth-browse"]http://duranduranboa...09/worth-browse[/url]

[kusee pee]

[quote name='CHW' timestamp='1452463362' post='2950218']
I have a vague memory of seeing a documentary about Duran Duran where JT was saying that I. The studio he played the verse with a pick and the chorus with fingers. He had to learn to do it all fingers live.

Re the whole they couldn't play thing. I have seen them state that at the time they toured the first album. That was the entirety of their repertoire. I decidedly remember them mentioning that as a band, they couldn't even play Johnny b Goode.
[/quote]

You may be thinking about Hold Back The Rain with regard to the chorus versus verse I think. He talks about it on the Classic Albums documentary for Rio.

[JTUK]

I don't think it REALLY matters...the track is great and he will have had to learn it live...
Whether he triple tracked it ...at any point (which I think they favoured or ran a sequence under it
-as L42 would do) is just tricks of the trade...

The isolation mix is scrappy but the finished mix..which is what it is alway about, really drives the track.

In that live track example... when John Taylor signs off the bass riff before the chorus..he hits it so hard
the bass track goes out of tune..???

If you aren't sure you have the energy/technique to do that all the way thru the track..you might have a little insurance
with backup parts...

My feeling is that the track is easy with pick and less so than fingers...other than that, it is what it is.

[LewisK1975]

[quote name='jonsmith' timestamp='1452437470' post='2949902']
I'm pretty sure it's JT, even if it gets scrappy towards the end. Most of these isolated bass parts reveal scrappy or out of time playing - even the ones from the likes of Geddy Lee. That's part of where the energy in performance comes from in my opinion (as opposed to the trend amongst some to quantise everything until it loses all sense of feeling). When deciding to go with a take, you'd listen in context with the other instruments (drums especially) rather than how the bassline sat on its own. The fact that so many untidy performances both in sound and execution have ended up on very successful recordings demonstrates that the part doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to fit in a pleasing way.
[/quote]

^This - There's always loads of debate on youtube comments for these isolated bass tracks. Quote 'Thats not Steve Harris / Geddy / etc etc, he would never be that sloppy' - People always forget that they're listening to the bass track in isolation, and that would never happen during the recording process..

[JTUK]

[quote name='LewisK1975' timestamp='1452514683' post='2950612']
^This - There's always loads of debate on youtube comments for these isolated bass tracks. Quote 'Thats not Steve Harris / Geddy / etc etc, he would never be that sloppy' - People always forget that they're listening to the bass track in isolation, and that would never happen during the recording process..
[/quote]

Actually, I can believe that..as both have hard aggressive styles.which isn't likely to be the cleanest..

Everyone has run the gauntlet of an engr isolating your tracks whereby you can sound crap.

It depends how much you are indulged..
It they are paying, they expect the signal to be good and clean as it saves on time later...(and their money)
if you are paying, it is more money to them...

If you are seriously paying, then of course, they'll wipe your backside and say 'yes sir'..

It depends who you can afford to upset...

[Maude]

I'm not questioning whether this is JT or not but is it the track used on the final mix of Rio?

On the isolated bass track the second to last bar before the first chorus ( the part of the riff that starts on C# on the A string) is a bit snatched on the octave, where in the album track it isn't.
I probably haven't described this well but have a listen and you'll see what I mean.

I've been having great fun playing this song this evening,

[[email protected]]

On 09/01/2016 at 11:25, JTUK said:

I never thought it was him at that time but hearing the line in isolation
which is played with a plectrum, I think he'd have been able to that.
Fingers, ..no..!!

Some people talk absolute rubbish.

What sort of bass player can you be if you say Rio was played with a plectrum? Clearly no musical ear and lacking in any knowledge whatsoever.

Edited November 18, 2020 by [email protected]

[cetera]

1 minute ago, [email protected] said:

Some people talk absolute rubbish.

What sort of bass player can you be if you say Rio was played with a plectrum? Clearly no musical ear and lacking in any knowledge whatsoever.

Are you some Oasis wannabe standard ?

 

Way to go with your first ever post on this forum.... straight into insults. Whether the original poster was right or wrong this is clearly no way to respond.

You might want to check your attitude.....

[stewblack]

1 minute ago, cetera said:

 

Way to go with your first ever post on this forum.... straight into insults. Whether the original poster was right or wrong this is clearly no way to respond.

You might want to check your attitude.....

Beat me to it! 

Edited November 18, 2020 by stewblack

[[email protected]]

1 minute ago, cetera said:

 

Way to go with your first ever post on this forum.... straight into insults. Whether the original poster was right or wrong this is clearly no way to respond.

You might want to check your attitude.....

Do you not think the OP was extremely disrespectful to the original player?

This response is simply in the same tone as the OP's comment - " I think he'd have been able to that". What a terrible, misleading, uneducated, condescending comment.