Trace Elliot tone help

[Twincam]

I bought an old but fully working Te 7215 smc combo.
I'm having trouble finding a tone I really like. Normally I set an amp flat and work from there, trouble is I'm not keen on the amps sound flat, so not sure where to start from. I do like the pre shape button but it can seem a little muffled at times. I would like to use the eq more effective.
Second issue how does the 2 band compressor work, all it seems to do is boost the volume with no compression apparent tho I'm just playing at home levels so maybe its more effect when digging in.

[JTUK]

Always hated thyat pre amp so understand why they had the preset.
Potentially a lot of tone shaping there... I just didn't like the metallic
sound bias it had so glad semi para's put it to bed.

I'd guess you have 10+- db on your designated freqs and that is hard to control
on such a small graphic panel ( same as the Ampeg) so you must realise that
a small change is going to supposedly be quite a sweep..

Good luck. I'd just use the pre shape... most sounds are scooped at some point or another anyway.

Can you start with the rep shape and switch the Eq in.. or is it one or the other..?

Edited January 11, 2016 by JTUK

[RhysP]

The Trace stuff has a tone you either love or hate.
I used to use Trace Elliott stuff a long time ago but I never really took to it that much. Hated the pre shape sound, though pretty much everybody you see using Trace stuff uses it.

[ahpook]

It's stay away from the preshapes and work on the EQ.

It can take a while to dial it in, but as JTUK said, only use small amounts and keep the cut and boost centred around 0Bb.

I had a GP7 for years and mainly used the EQ, not the preshapes

[Twincam]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1452540583' post='2951020']
Always hated thyat pre amp so understand why they had the preset.
Potentially a lot of tone shaping there... I just didn't like the metallic
sound bias it had so glad semi para's put it to bed.

I'd guess you have 10+- db on your designated freqs and that is hard to control
on such a small graphic panel ( same as the Ampeg) so you must realise that
a small change is going to supposedly be quite a sweep..

Good luck. I'd just use the pre shape... most sounds are scooped at some point or another anyway.

Can you start with the rep shape and switch the Eq in.. or is it one or the other..?
[/quote]

Yes you can have the eq in with the shape or vice versa lol.

I can get one pretty good sound out of it, which is eq almost flat but with the lower mids turned down a bit and the preshape button on. Struggling to get anything that's not muffled, metallic or weirdly scooped. Even eq flat it sounds "different". Going to try boosting the mids more but doing that never worked with other amps for me.

[VTypeV4]

I found that with that particular speaker / enclosure, I had to roll the 50Hz slider down a touch as there seemed a bit of a hump around the 60Hz area. You'll find that effect exaggerated when using the pre-shape so a larger cut may be needed. To reduce the metallic quality (something I hate and is not present in my sound) reduce the 1.3 or 2.6kHz or both sliders and then possibly add some 5K. If you're lacking note definition, try boosting the 250 and 660 sliders.

The dual band compressor works over two frequency bands with a different envelope for each. The low part has a low-pass filter and operates to around 250Hz has a slow-ish attack and release times. A high-pass filter takes over above 250 and has much faster envelope times desinged to catch and release high frequency transients. The two combined are designed to give a smooth transparency to your sound. Too much however will be a squashed mess - I never needed more than 10 o'clock on the 7-band version of the compressor.

A last and [u][i]essential[/i][/u] point is setting the input level correctly, if you don't, the compressor won't work properly. Early models will just have a clip light whereas later versions have the 'traffic light' style input meter. Set it just below clip (never mind the old keep the pre down and use the master volume, doesn't work the same on a graphic Trace) which may mean setting it above 7 but thats normal on one of these even if it does seem odd.

Hope that helps. Matt

[Ghost_Bass]

Trace gives excelent tips on how setting up your amp to obtain maximum performance on their manuals. Here you go:
http://media.wix.com/ugd/c44a33_59783e46cd57466d9d91d5f4a3160fa3.pdf

From my Trace experience i would say to stay away from the pre-shape and turn off compression until you have nailed the EQ. Use the 50Hz slider to cut, it cleans up your sound a lot.

Read the manual and follow the steps described there to setup the gain syage and EQ, you should end up with a sound you like.

If not, Trace isn't the amp you're looking for...

[Twincam]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1452593025' post='2951351']
Trace gives excelent tips on how setting up your amp to obtain maximum performance on their manuals. Here you go:
http://media.wix.com/ugd/c44a33_59783e46cd57466d9d91d5f4a3160fa3.pdf

From my Trace experience i would say to stay away from the pre-shape and turn off compression until you have nailed the EQ. Use the 50Hz slider to cut, it cleans up your sound a lot.

Read the manual and follow the steps described there to setup the gain syage and EQ, you should end up with a sound you like.

If not, Trace isn't the amp you're looking for...
[/quote]

Thank you so much for the manual. I searched for one but couldn't find it or only found ones for other models.
Much appreciated.

[TrevorR]

[quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1452546559' post='2951117']

A last and [u][i]essential[/i][/u] point is setting the input level correctly, if you don't, the compressor won't work properly. Early models will just have a clip light whereas later versions have the 'traffic light' style input meter. Set it just below clip (never mind the old keep the pre down and use the master volume, doesn't work the same on a graphic Trace) which may mean setting it above 7 but thats normal on one of these even if it does seem odd.

Hope that helps. Matt
[/quote]

+1 for the tip on setting the input level right. The old trick should work of setting the input gain at 0 and then playing as hard as you can whilse increasing the gain knob. Do this until it only just starts to flash the clip light on the loudest notes. Then back off the gain knob a tiny smidge so that the clip light doesn't light and you should have pretty much the optimum match between your guitar signal and the input gain stage of the amp.

[hubrad]

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1452611386' post='2951636']
+1 for the tip on setting the input level right. The old trick should work of setting the input gain at 0 and then playing as hard as you can whilse increasing the gain knob. Do this until it only just starts to flash the clip light on the loudest notes. Then back off the gain knob a tiny smidge so that the clip light doesn't light and you should have pretty much the optimum match between your guitar signal and the input gain stage of the amp.
[/quote]
+ another 1.. mahoosive difference on Trace gear!

[synthaside]

Here try this from its from my [font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]Te 7215 smc GP7 This is the photo i use when some Muppet has been messing with it to annoy me in the storage room.[/color][/font]
https://goo.gl/photos/SeFMNTCbtN46Brz76

Input volume at around 2-3 oclock ish just under where my clipping light is and use the master to deal with volume ...


https://goo.gl/photos/SeFMNTCbtN46Brz76

Completely contradicts what the others in the forum are saying about cutting 50hz but ... gives me what i want out of the amp.

[Twincam]

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1452611386' post='2951636']


+1 for the tip on setting the input level right. The old trick should work of setting the input gain at 0 and then playing as hard as you can whilse increasing the gain knob. Do this until it only just starts to flash the clip light on the loudest notes. Then back off the gain knob a tiny smidge so that the clip light doesn't light and you should have pretty much the optimum match between your guitar signal and the input gain stage of the amp.
[/quote]

Slight problem my clipping light is not coming on, no matter what.
However my mustang bass doesn't have that much poke lol

However after reading the manual and other things its common to set the gain 6-9 so that's what I'm doing and the tone certainly seems better. Also noticed a shallow frown no pre shape works well.

Compressor still isn't compressing unless its very subtle, it does gain volume and I can hear a slight difference maybe! But its not like other compressors ive used. Maybe its my lowish output bass?

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='synthaside' timestamp='1452613062' post='2951654']
Here try this from its from my [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]Te 7215 smc GP7 This is the photo i use when some Muppet has been messing with it to annoy me in the storage room.[/color][/font]
[url="https://goo.gl/photos/SeFMNTCbtN46Brz76"]https://goo.gl/photo...FMNTCbtN46Brz76[/url]

Input volume at around 2-3 oclock ish just under where my clipping light is and use the master to deal with volume ...


[url="https://goo.gl/photos/SeFMNTCbtN46Brz76"]https://goo.gl/photo...FMNTCbtN46Brz76[/url]

Completely contradicts what the others in the forum are saying about cutting 50hz but ... gives me what i want out of the amp.
[/quote]

From the pic i would say you're pushing your EQ too hard. Try lowering all buttons so that they all balance around the 0dB line and adjust the gain knob again. I'll bet that you'll be able to go higher in the gain knob and you won't be getting as much fart from the drivers at volume.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1452616495' post='2951714']
Slight problem my clipping light is not coming on, no matter what.
However my mustang bass doesn't have that much poke lol

However after reading the manual and other things its common to set the gain 6-9 so that's what I'm doing and the tone certainly seems better. Also noticed a shallow frown no pre shape works well.

Compressor still isn't compressing unless its very subtle, it does gain volume and I can hear a slight difference maybe! But its not like other compressors ive used. Maybe its my lowish output bass?
[/quote]

Don't worry, that happens with some passive basses. First i would try to see if you have your bass properly setup, maybe the pickups nedd to be raised a bit, that will give you more signal strenght.
I set the gain's maximum level doing a bit of slap and pop, try it if you haven't already.

[Twincam]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1452616717' post='2951718']


Don't worry, that happens with some passive basses. First i would try to see if you have your bass properly setup, maybe the pickups nedd to be raised a bit, that will give you more signal strenght.
I set the gain's maximum level doing a bit of slap and pop, try it if you haven't already.
[/quote]

Pick ups are setup right. I don't do slap and pop. But ive tried playing as hard as possible. I just think its the low output.

Setting the gain 6-9 definitely sounds better now. And im now able to dial in a few different sounds. Getting a nice little bit of growl now too.

[VTypeV4]

I had a passive RockBass Streamer when they first came out and that was low on output requiring the gain knob to be nailed on an SMX to light the yellow signal LED. It buggedd me so much that I took the knob off and repositioned it so it read '7' when it was actually on ten..

[40hz]

Great bass heads, I had a GP12 smx. Turn off the preshapes, they're pants. A little goes a long way with the eq and compressor. I used to boost the low band of the compressor a tad and left the hi part off. It added a lot of punch. One thing I would say tone wise is I don't rate those Trace 15"s. They have a baked in sound unto themselves, I had the head rehoused from the combo into a sleeve and started using it with a GK 410. Talk about unleashed! Persevere, it's worth it!

[thodrik]

I might in the minority that actually likes the sound of Trace pre shape sound when used with a passive bass. I always started with the pre shape on and then EQ'd some of the bass and treble out and some of the mids back in that are cut out by the pre shape. I only ignored the pre shape if I had a bass with a powerful on board EQ or I had a good floor level preamp like a Sansamp or something similar.

In the modern era of 'a bit of valve grit' and 'brilliant flat response enhancing the natural tone of your bass', the baked-in sound of Trace Elliot is a bit unfashionable.

I have three Trace Elliot amps and love them. The V6 is a monster.

[VTypeV4]

I always liked and used the pre-shape too although dialed the 50Hz (30, 40 & 60 on 12 band) and 2K6 slider down a bit as I don't like that component in my sound. I miss having a graphic Trace; I'd love another 400SMX but since having the V4 back, I just can't justify or if I'm really honest, simply don't need it. Nostalgia could be expensive couldn't it!?

Kind of agree about the 15" (1153 cab) having a sound of it's own too, bit of a hump low down in 60Hz region and an almost scooped midrange. I rarely used mine without a 1048H on top but I can't say it particularly upset me but I do agree with them being a 'coloured' speaker.

Plenty of good advice here TwinCam, hope you get it sorted man.

[Twincam]

I'm having some good success slightly boosting the upper mids and slightly cutting the highs and I've slightly cut the 50hz.

I think I'm just getting used to the as said "baked in tone". It's definitely different I can see why it might be a bit unfashionable but it's still good.

Oh my is it loud! Tho. I know it's only 200w through its inbuilt speaker, certainly louder than any other 200w amp I've ever heard which is impressive especially given its age.
I don't normally go for the certain watts are louder but there is something in the "trace watts" theory, I guess they are or should I say were fairly conservatively rated.