spectoremg Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1452633385' post='2951942'] I'm 51 & I've bought plenty of flea products. They were from the vet to use on my cats. [/quote]Yeah but I was talking about sea bass fleas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 [quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1452684808' post='2952318'] I was talking about sea bass fleas. [/quote] They're the worst! Once they get in your pubes you just can't get 'em out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1452606275' post='2951520'] Do other players really have the might to sell equipment like this? Dave Swift for example - loads of endorsements... but does anybody actually buy this stuff because Dave Swift uses it? How many extra units has Aguilar shifted because of his using of their gear. [/quote] The simple answer to this is a resounding yes! As someone who sees buyers making decisions on what to buy pretty regularly I've been a keen observer of what helps to sell something. Dave's association with Aguilar has most certainly helped them shift a lot of heads and cabs from my personal experience. All of these, that I can remember, have been from experienced gigging players as well. Dave has an enormous amount of credibility amongst a lot of everyday folk out there. He is one of the hardest working pro players in the UK scene and he always uses Aguilar amps, either the big DB750 for larger gigs or the TH500 for smaller ones. He's not in a 'superstar' band so there's an acknowledgment that he probably lugs his own gear around and doesn't have an enormous budget for replacements. This means people accept that there's a major reliability factor involved in his gear and this is seriously important to regular gigging players. Then there's the variety of musicians he plays with. It may well be that Dave's tone is his own but people certainly recognise that he plays with everyone from Lemmy to Tom Jones to Kylie so there's a belief that his gear can be adaptable to different gig requirements. He's also known to record a lot of material so tonal excellence from his gear is expected as well. Top all this off with someone who's very visible on TV and makes lots of public appearances at events and you have a really strong brand endorsee and this absolutely translates into hard cash sales Start adding all the other respected Aguilar players and you can build a really good picture of the brand and understand how their endorsements develop a strong brand interest and generate loyalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Really? Not being an arse here, but I'm genuinely surprised if what you are saying is true. I've never met any bass player who has said they have bought anything because of "x" player, let alone Dave Swift. But then again, I'm not a marketing guy or in charge of purchasing for a shop so what you saying could be true! My viewpoint, and I may be pretty ignorant here, is that Aguilar have a set of products that are loaded with selling points - which in themselves make the products sell. The DB750... what's their competition? Well, theres not many big block amps like that to choose from certainly... and the THs are great products which sound very different to the MarkBass, TC, Genz etc with what they are competing against. Aguilar seemed to have nailed that "vintage influenced but lightweight" in terms of their class D stuff. I would have thought that alone would be a bigger selling point... How many people have bought Dingwall, Citron, Sadowsky, Fodera, Rob Allen, XYZ because of seeing/hearing them in Swifty's hands on the TV? I would wager that those people are in single figures, if present at all. Conversely, Berg have zero endorsers... yet seem to have put them in a position of high visibility and with a great reputation. Now whether they as a brand are selling cabs in a comparative number to Aguilar, I wouldn't know. My gut feeling is that the endorsement thing is primarily to score points over a different brand - "we've got x player" - but I don't think the consumers really care... but I do think consumers are impressed by pages full of endorsers - as stated before and in your last paragraph Barrie... especially if they are guys that they have heard of. I still don't reckon there's many people buying on the strength of one person using it, with MK being the notable exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1452627117' post='2951853'] Considering the Nate Mendel P bass seems to sell quite well perhaps Fender might twig there's a market for P basses with a Jazz like neck [/quote] US Special is exactly that. Without a sig or endorsement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1452700349' post='2952581'] Really? Not being an arse here, but I'm genuinely surprised if what you are saying is true. I've never met any bass player who has said they have bought anything because of "x" player, let alone Dave Swift. But then again, I'm not a marketing guy or in charge of purchasing for a shop so what you saying could be true! My viewpoint, and I may be pretty ignorant here, is that Aguilar have a set of products that are loaded with selling points - which in themselves make the products sell. The DB750... what's their competition? Well, theres not many big block amps like that to choose from certainly... and the THs are great products which sound very different to the MarkBass, TC, Genz etc with what they are competing against. Aguilar seemed to have nailed that "vintage influenced but lightweight" in terms of their class D stuff. I would have thought that alone would be a bigger selling point... How many people have bought Dingwall, Citron, Sadowsky, Fodera, Rob Allen, XYZ because of seeing/hearing them in Swifty's hands on the TV? I would wager that those people are in single figures, if present at all. Conversely, Berg have zero endorsers... yet seem to have put them in a position of high visibility and with a great reputation. Now whether they as a brand are selling cabs in a comparative number to Aguilar, I wouldn't know. My gut feeling is that the endorsement thing is primarily to score points over a different brand - "we've got x player" - but I don't think the consumers really care... but I do think consumers are impressed by pages full of endorsers - as stated before and in your last paragraph Barrie... especially if they are guys that they have heard of. I still don't reckon there's many people buying on the strength of one person using it, with MK being the notable exception. [/quote] I agree to an extent. I'm not so much interested in what they play as whether I can recreate a sound that I think I hear them generate. So when I was looking at amps I checked out GK because Flea uses them, But I bought a Markbass in the end, but that's not the point.. Fleas endorsements would appear to be a bit worthless in terms of "I wanna sound like that" since he's played so many different basses in the past it would be almost impossible to figure out what bass was actually played. In terms of actual signature basses some strike me as pretty odd or so specialist that they would have limited appear. The Steve Harris is a case in point. Even if you like a mirror scratchplate (I dont) and the neck profile(I dont) and the SD pickup (thats better) how many players want a west ham logo on their bass? I wouldn't and I'm a Hammers supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 A good point! I would also wager that what you hear coming out of your TV on Jool's show actually has little to do with the Aguilar. It would be uncommon if the sound engineers didn't take his DI (which I can see that is used from his Aggie) preEQ so that ultimately, they are in control of what the listeners hear. In fact, I'm quite surprised to see that the DI isn't taken before the amp such that if anything were to happen to the amp, the performance can go on uninterrupted. As for studio recordings, all bets are off anyway - because with the amount of processing available in the modern studio, it's kind of inconsequential what bass preamp, amp, etc that are using... You can squish, expand, tweak, poke the sound to be pretty much anything you want. For me, I guess the biggest "sellers" of amps and basses are the layman guys already using it. For staters, there are no questions raised about whether they have been given their gear for free/discount. You only have to look on here to see the reputation that Barefaced/OBBM have got - and to my knowledge, they have no "hard hitters" in terms of endorsers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassX2 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1452700349' post='2952581'] Really? Not being an arse here, but I'm genuinely surprised if what you are saying is true. I've never met any bass player who has said they have bought anything because of "x" player, let alone Dave Swift. But then again, I'm not a marketing guy or in charge of purchasing for a shop so what you saying could be true! My viewpoint, and I may be pretty ignorant here, is that Aguilar have a set of products that are loaded with selling points - which in themselves make the products sell. The DB750... what's their competition? Well, theres not many big block amps like that to choose from certainly... and the THs are great products which sound very different to the MarkBass, TC, Genz etc with what they are competing against. Aguilar seemed to have nailed that "vintage influenced but lightweight" in terms of their class D stuff. I would have thought that alone would be a bigger selling point... How many people have bought Dingwall, Citron, Sadowsky, Fodera, Rob Allen, XYZ because of seeing/hearing them in Swifty's hands on the TV? I would wager that those people are in single figures, if present at all. Conversely, Berg have zero endorsers... yet seem to have put them in a position of high visibility and with a great reputation. Now whether they as a brand are selling cabs in a comparative number to Aguilar, I wouldn't know. My gut feeling is that the endorsement thing is primarily to score points over a different brand - "we've got x player" - but I don't think the consumers really care... but I do think consumers are impressed by pages full of endorsers - as stated before and in your last paragraph Barrie... especially if they are guys that they have heard of. I still don't reckon there's many people buying on the strength of one person using it, with MK being the notable exception. [/quote] The fact Dave Swift is well known on the UK scene, on or off the TV, definitely must have some influence on sales. His credibility means that people know he wont endorse or recommend anything he wouldn't use or is not using . Considering the high profile gigs he does, Jools and multiple others, obviously the equipment he uses has to be not only adaptable but the best. This must be helping sales? Regardless of the player, surely any high profile player who can be heard on TV regularly will be helping people to choose and secure those sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) [quote name='BassX2' timestamp='1452704438' post='2952663'] The fact Dave Swift is well known on the UK scene, on or off the TV, definitely must have some influence on sales.[/quote] why? [quote]His credibility means that people know he wont endorse or recommend anything he wouldn't use or is not using .[/quote] How can you be so sure? Perhaps Dave is a gear whore like the rest of us... and if he can get an endorsement on anything ("enwhoresement" as some may know it) to get gear either free/artist rate, why wouldn't he take the opportunity? I would like to think that he pays the same price for "the majority" of his custom basses - but I suspect he is in a position where he can negotiate a discount to "work with" the manufacturer to "boost" their brand. A mutual benefit between the two parties if you will. How can you measure how much DS has boosted Aguilar? In any other industry, the guys at the pursestrings would want quantifiable figures. [quote] Considering the high profile gigs he does, Jools and multiple others, obviously the equipment he uses has to be not only adaptable but the best. This must be helping sales? [/quote] Aren't we in the position now where most equipment would fulfil those requirements? How adaptable does bass gear have to be - especially for the tones that Dave requires? [quote] Regardless of the player, surely any high profile player who can be heard on TV regularly will be helping people to choose and secure those sales. [/quote] You'd think? But I'm not too sure it translates to actual sales. Edited January 13, 2016 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Not a signature bass or amp but gear that has become that players signature without them meaning to. The Timmy C sound. The Chris Wolstenholme sound. The Flea sound (pre Modulus). Actually Flea is a good point - he put Modulus on the map that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Modulus = Gordo for me... Although that may be more Stateside than over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Modulus = Alphonso Johnson for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edpirie Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 This may sound shallow, but the one reason I wouldn't even consider a Sire is that it says Marcus Miller prominently on the headstock. Nothing against the man, he's a great musician, but I just couldn't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 I wonder how many guitarists wouldn't buy a Les Paul for a similar reason! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Wal don't offer endorsements, but I imagine Justin Chancellor, Flea and Mick Karn have sold quite a few basses for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I think Flea's contribution is the Stingray. You really have to be on your game to know he played a Wal on Blood Sugar and only select tracks where everything else was done on a Stingray 5. At no other time has he used a Wal bass - I don't think he has used one live. Common knowledge this!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 That Leo F bloke has put his name on a few instruments and he couldn't even play! No Adam Clayton jokes please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 [quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1452726466' post='2952993'] I think Flea's contribution is the Stingray. You really have to be on your game to know he played a Wal on Blood Sugar and only select tracks where everything else was done on a Stingray 5. At no other time has he used a Wal bass - I don't think he has used one live. Common knowledge this!! [/quote] Reminds me of how to get the killer Stuart Zender 'distinctive Warwick tone' that he had, use the pink stingray 5 that he used! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1452700349' post='2952581'] Really? Not being an arse here, but I'm genuinely surprised if what you are saying is true. I've never met any bass player who has said they have bought anything because of "x" player, let alone Dave Swift. But then again, I'm not a marketing guy or in charge of purchasing for a shop so what you saying could be true! My viewpoint, and I may be pretty ignorant here, is that Aguilar have a set of products that are loaded with selling points - which in themselves make the products sell. The DB750... what's their competition? Well, theres not many big block amps like that to choose from certainly... and the THs are great products which sound very different to the MarkBass, TC, Genz etc with what they are competing against. Aguilar seemed to have nailed that "vintage influenced but lightweight" in terms of their class D stuff. I would have thought that alone would be a bigger selling point... How many people have bought Dingwall, Citron, Sadowsky, Fodera, Rob Allen, XYZ because of seeing/hearing them in Swifty's hands on the TV? I would wager that those people are in single figures, if present at all. Conversely, Berg have zero endorsers... yet seem to have put them in a position of high visibility and with a great reputation. Now whether they as a brand are selling cabs in a comparative number to Aguilar, I wouldn't know. My gut feeling is that the endorsement thing is primarily to score points over a different brand - "we've got x player" - but I don't think the consumers really care... but I do think consumers are impressed by pages full of endorsers - as stated before and in your last paragraph Barrie... especially if they are guys that they have heard of. I still don't reckon there's many people buying on the strength of one person using it, with MK being the notable exception. [/quote] I think you're totally missing the point of artist endorsements here. There are a minority of people who may buy something because they just love that individual player but it's really not that many people. However, lots of people will buy stuff because they are used by people they know and respect. Seeing something that's used by top gigging players week in week out is a huge sign of appreciation to many people. They understand and/or believe the players use the gear because it doesn't break and it sounds good. The small minority of bassists that spend time here on BC analysing stuff to death may well not 'get' endorsements but they really don't represent that many 'real world' players. I'd estimate that at least 75% of the people who walk through the door at the shop have either never heard of BC or have a vague knowledge that it exists but never actually visit. However, ask them about top 'name' players and they are far more interested and engaged. There's also a huge misconception about the supposedly free or super-cheap prices endorsees get on equipment. I've personally 'brokered' several deals for some very high profile bassists and the discounts aren't that great, often the same price a shop would get and some even pay more than basic trade prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I think what the op is asking though is do buyers come through the door asking specifically for a Dave swift signature bass (which changes monthly anyway!) rather than a buyer trying out some indeed very good gear and being informed by the shop assistant that "Dave swift uses these you know" "who" "Dave Swift, swifty, DS!" "Who's he?" "The tall bald guy behind Jools Holland" "Oh right, never seen him but he must be good to play with him, I'll take it". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 [quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1452726466' post='2952993'] I think Flea's contribution is the Stingray. You really have to be on your game to know he played a Wal on Blood Sugar and only select tracks where everything else was done on a Stingray 5. At no other time has he used a Wal bass - I don't think he has used one live. Common knowledge this!! [/quote] He did play it in the video for Suck My Kiss, which was shot in the studio, so i'd imagine that helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I agree he's done more for Musicman and Modulus, but I'll bet him using a Wal on one of their biggest selling albums certainly didn't hurt Wal sales figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452607902' post='2951553'] I'd have thought Chris Wolstenholme has been responsible for a few sales - although not sure if they would be of endorsement/signature items. [/quote] He's certainly responsible for the prices of second hand Deep Impact pedals... Endorsements definitely help shift product, no question about it. Especially for a brand that wants to establish it's credibility to a particular niche market. I've been reluctant to get a Yammie BBNEII even though they're cracking basses because of the Nathan East connection. The degree to which endorsements help varies greatly too I suspect...depending on the cult appeal of a particular bass player. King, Sheehan, Hamm, Entwhistle, Clarke, Miller etc. have all benefitted to a greater or lesser degree. But if the musician really likes the product, the claims in favour of the product aren't based on smoke and mirrors, and the player stays loyal then I don't see the problem. There are still some sales pitches out there which are bullshit, endorsement or not but the only way to tell is to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Actually if you look at them the endorsers tend to be the least loyal users of kit, I'm sure someone more educated than me could list the kit Dave swift has endorsed likewise Clayton. The real endorsements are proven by those players that have just stuck by a brand for years without an official endorsement in place aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 14, 2016 Author Share Posted January 14, 2016 [quote name='Kiwi' timestamp='1452756257' post='2953092'] Endorsements definitely help shift product, no question about it. Especially for a brand that wants to establish it's credibility to a particular niche market. I've been reluctant to get a Yammie BBNEII even though they're cracking basses because of the Nathan East connection. [/quote] The BBNE2 is a fantastic bass - you should go for it. I deeply miss mine. The only thing on it is the BB EAST inscription on the 12th fret... unlike other signatures which have a cheesy signature on the headstock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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