EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1452608627' post='2951571'] I shall retire to youtube and investigate... [/quote] The question is... will he make you want to buy Vanderklay gear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452607902' post='2951553'] I'd have thought Chris Wolstenholme has been responsible for a few sales - although not sure if they would be of endorsement/signature items. [/quote] Certainly the Deep Impact. I wouldn't like to say re: his signature Status - I wouldn't have thought so. I don't think I've ever seen anybody apart from CW with one. The same certainly can't be said about the Kingbass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Those endorsements will help sales to new people picking up the instrument more than seasoned players, at least when it comes to current Fender. I doubt many veterans will bother buying a Clayton Jazz bass, partly because they probably already own a j, and partly because he isn't much of an inspiration to that many seasoned players. U2 fans tend to be older and will be more likely to afford a USA jazz even if they're just starting out. And the various Squier and Mex endorsements are also aimed at the Rock guys who are new to bass and need a reliable / recognisable point of entry. The Marcus bass is different, but like the Geddy it isn't a new phenomenon and is from a very different era. Endorsements that sell basses will only work as long as there are new emerging artists that appeal to a wider audience beyond bass players I think. Mark King was a pop star with wider appeal beyond bass, and had an undeniable influence on bass and probably continues to help sell stuff, but very few people under 45 know who he is now. For those endorsements to work, the word needs new Mark Kings. (not literally as that would be terrifying). Whether new musical virtuoso icons are even a possibility in a dying music culture and industry remains to be seen, but it might be at the root of the problem. Mainstream appeal or at least underground coolness is the key, and there's almost nobody new there who is visible on bass at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1452608784' post='2951573'] The question is... will he make you want to buy Vanderklay gear? [/quote] Check the items wanted thread tomorrow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1452607299' post='2951543'] Too many.,.. and amps and cabs, IMO. [/quote] It's OK saying that... but... Examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ern500evo Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1452608530' post='2951566'] I had a similar conversation with somebody about swirled Ibanez guitars. If you got one of those out at the local pub, you better make damn sure you can sweep, pick and tap to hell to avoid any cringe... [/quote] Yes, absolutely agree. A friend of mine had an Ibanez Jem 77 floral when they first came out, it was his 21st birthday present from his parents. Amazing instrument to play but he ended up leaving it at home and using a much cheaper/plainer model as he got fed up with people asking him "can you play (insert any Vai lick/riff/song)?" all the time. Edited January 12, 2016 by ern500evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='Cameronj279' timestamp='1452607008' post='2951536'] I would say Dingwall would have developed a fair amount more interest since Nolly (Periphery) started using them. [/quote] Actually, that's a good point. I don't really listen to that genre of music... but a bass player mate of mine, who I hadn't spoken to in ages talked about this guy using Dingwall... and how great it sounded with (I think he said this) some Darkglass fx - so I guess he noticed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1452608894' post='2951574'] Certainly the Deep Impact. I wouldn't like to say re: his signature Status - I wouldn't have thought so. I don't think I've ever seen anybody apart from CW with one. The same certainly can't be said about the Kingbass! [/quote] Signs of a few signature Status basses having been bought - a quick look at the Statii forum (not the easiest to browse), and certainly, for a low level production, high cost bass, some people have been buying them. Sure, not the high levels of your OP Edited January 12, 2016 by Mykesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='project_c' timestamp='1452608896' post='2951575'] Those endorsements will help sales to new people picking up the instrument more than seasoned players, at least when it comes to current Fender. I doubt many veterans will bother buying a Clayton Jazz bass, partly because they probably already own a j, and partly because he isn't much of an inspiration to that many seasoned players. U2 fans tend to be older and will be more likely to afford a USA jazz even if they're just starting out. And the various Squier and Mex endorsements are also aimed at the Rock guys who are new to bass and need a reliable / recognisable point of entry. The Marcus bass is different, but like the Geddy it isn't a new phenomenon and is from a very different era. Endorsements that sell basses will only work as long as there are new emerging artists that appeal to a wider audience beyond bass players I think. Mark King was a pop star with wider appeal beyond bass, and had an undeniable influence on bass and probably continues to help sell stuff, but very few people under 45 know who he is now. For those endorsements to work, the word needs new Mark Kings. (not literally as that would be terrifying). Whether new musical virtuoso icons are even a possibility in a dying music culture and industry remains to be seen, but it might be at the root of the problem. Mainstream appeal or at least underground coolness is the key, and there's almost nobody new there who is visible on bass at the moment. [/quote] I think - and I alluded to this earlier I think - that MK is a dream endorser... because he is still current with the fanbase... who are now of the age where they have mostly paid off their mortgages, kids left home and now have the loose change to buy the expensive gear. If MK solely appealed to teens, then his worth as an endorser is greatly diminished because even though he may be making the brand more visible, the guys that want the gear haven't got the money to buy it. As for underground coolness... I think thats the aforementioned Vanderklay plan. I notice he is hitting the London session bass player scene pretty hard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452609271' post='2951584'] Signs of a few signature Status basses having been bought - a quick look at the Statii forum (not the easiest to browse), and certainly, for a low level production, high cost bass, some people have been buying them. Sure, not the high levels of your OP [/quote] Statii forum is very niche though - thats the place you would go to look for Status specific stuff I guess. In comparison - You don't have to go very far on here to stumble across a Kingbass/Sire/Marcus Miller Signature/Pino Signature/Jaco Signature..... I don't recall ever stumbling across a CW bass on here or Talkbass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Interesting thread EBS_freak, you've got me researching now. Thought of Steve Harris, and then remembered Thomann do a sales rank. Here is there P Bass sales ranking, so it looks like these signature models do sell well - [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/cat_rank.html?ar=355172&sid=95fb154e4a4f36e2bdbbe6a1994d2386"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/cat_rank.html?ar=355172&sid=95fb154e4a4f36e2bdbbe6a1994d2386[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 I'm beginning to think endorsements are on the whole, a waste of time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Here's a better version of the chart - Nate Mendel P outselling the US Standard P!! [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/topseller_GF_4_string_p_basses.html"]http://www.thomann.de/gb/topseller_GF_4_string_p_basses.html[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 What about string endorsements? I can't see many rushing out to buy their favorite players strings... In the unlikely event I was in a position to command endorsements, strings would be number one on my list of useful things to not have to pay for.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452609695' post='2951598'] Interesting thread EBS_freak, you've got me researching now. Thought of Steve Harris, and then remembered Thomann do a sales rank. Here is there P Bass sales ranking, so it looks like these signature models do sell well - [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/cat_rank.html?ar=355172&sid=95fb154e4a4f36e2bdbbe6a1994d2386"]http://www.thomann.d...dbbe6a1994d2386[/url] [/quote] Wow - Nate Mendel at number 11. This now makes me think that people go to Thomann's to buy signature models because it's generally the case that the standard stuff that is stocked on the high street - and people buy there and only go to Thomann because the signature model is available to buy there and then? But this Thomann list doesn't give you the number sold... it's ranking by popularity... maybe a Fender AM Vintage 63 P-Bass 3CSB at position 10 outsells a Fender Nate Mendel P Bass at 11 at a rate of 10:1?? Oh-oh, we're into maths and stats now. Edited January 12, 2016 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1452609719' post='2951599'] I'm beginning to think endorsements are on the whole, a waste of time! [/quote] For who? Not the manufacturers. If you check those charts I've just posted, Thomann's sales volumes are amazing. My pal used to manage GAK, and they couldn't hold a candle to Thomann, who were selling nearly as much Fender and Gibson gear as the whole of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1452610005' post='2951602'] In the unlikely event I was in a position to command endorsements, strings would be number one on my list of useful things to not have to pay for.... [/quote] Damn right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Is there a difference between endorser and signature model, in that the former is a user of a product whereas the latter is a version of a product with someone's name on it (that they may, or more than likely may not, use) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452610019' post='2951604'] For who? Not the manufacturers. If you check those charts I've just posted, Thomann's sales volumes are amazing. My pal used to manage GAK, and they couldn't hold a candle to Thomann, who were selling nearly as much Fender and Gibson gear as the whole of the UK. [/quote] Those charts don't give you sales figures though... and I've offered up a theory above as to why Thomann shift signature models. Maybe the number of reviews are more telling as to how many units are being shifted? I dunno... But Thomann's marketing is second to none. It's the fact they carry so much stock... and stock from budget to top end... and sell a much wider range of products than GAK. That gets you a lot of buying power... the ability to factor in a lot of discount... and voila, a lot of disgruntled competitors who can't compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1452607139' post='2951540'] Who is influenced to buy a bass because so and so uses one? [/quote] A hell of a lot of people I would think, when they're starting out at least. The reason the first ever decent bass I bought was a Rickenbacker 4001 is because most of the players I was into used them & I loved the sounds they got out of them. You have to start deciding what gear you want at some point, and lots of people base that decision on what their favourite players use or what their favourite bass sounds are. Seems perfectly logical to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='Muppet' timestamp='1452610151' post='2951607'] Is there a difference between endorser and signature model, in that the former is a user of a product whereas the latter is a version of a product with someone's name on it (that they may, or more than likely may not, use) ? [/quote] Yes. String manufacturers will help out people at quite an early stage, knowing that these are the players more likely to actively promote their strings. I know a couple of guitarists who have very low profiles but have string endorsement deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Muppet' timestamp='1452610151' post='2951607'] Is there a difference between endorser and signature model, in that the former is a user of a product whereas the latter is a version of a product with someone's name on it (that they may, or more than likely may not, use) ? [/quote] There can be an overlap. If you have a signature, chances are you are an endorser! Edit : Unless you are Richard Bona and Tecamp. Edited January 14, 2016 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1452609910' post='2951600'] Here's a better version of the chart - Nate Mendel P outselling the US Standard P!! [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/topseller_GF_4_string_p_basses.html"]http://www.thomann.d...g_p_basses.html[/url] [/quote] That may be more to do with that bass being pretty good value for money (pickups, tuners, body, neck profile, bridge etc) when compared with a standard P at list price than having Nate's signature on the headstock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1452610283' post='2951609'] A hell of a lot of people I would think, when they're starting out at least. The reason the first ever decent bass I bought was a Rickenbacker 4001 is because most of the players I was into used them & I loved the sounds they got out of them. You have to start deciding what gear you want at some point, and lots of people base that decision on what their favourite players use or what their favourite bass sounds are. Seems perfectly logical to me. [/quote] For me, it was Macca and the violin bass. Still never owned one though... because as my playing progressed, I realised that a Hofner was not for me for what I wanted to be doing. Who were the 4001 users that gained your interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1452610313' post='2951611'] There can be an overlap. If you have a signature, chances are you are an endorser! [/quote] Yes I see but it could be a fine line. Example - Nate Mendel (as we are talking about him earlier) has an Ashdown pedal in his name. Does he 'use' it? I doubt it. He does use the amps though. Does it matter though, if it increases the sales for Ashdown........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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