AndyTravis Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Following on from a thread (which I can't find) about my long term (18yrs playing together) drummer threw the towel in... I found a new drummer, great bloke, kit, transport, turns up on time etc... He's not overly familiar with the material, but had a storming audition and we agreed to take him on. So third week of rehearsal, and something's not right. He's speeding up a bit, and instead of the experienced guys holding back so he can realise and steady himself, the guitarist is speeding up...so the singers speed up...so the drummer speeds up more...the guitarist speeds up more...the singers stumble over words...you get the idea. My issue is, I listen to him warming up - he's got skills, and feel/groove. He jams with me fine - it could develop into an instinctive thing. But the guitarist is loud, and loves reverbs and delays. Has a tendency to play the same thing differently more or less each time. Now in the old set up, the drummer and I would be like an engine room and the guitarist would be keeping up. The singers relied upon that engine room. And it's not there yet. And it's tiring to be a one man metronome, bass player covering keys and bass. Monday was embarrassing and every song give or take 1/2 - I stopped the guys playing, and started again. There was a sulk over me asking for delays and reverbs to be switched off while we got the drummer steady, there was a tutting session because the metronome was 'annoying' the singers and guitarist. The drummer is panicking more and more, feels like he's f***ing up; and in my heart of hearts - I know it's time for metronome woodshed rehearsals, and while they won't like it, I sort of don't care. First gig for drummer is 2 months away, and if it doesn't snap quickly - I'm not turning up any more. Got really nowty - the guy was drowning in noise as he's still not confident enough to take control. And the moaning (and sniggering from the singers if he dropped a beat or fill while he's feeling it all out really got me too - annoying). Anyone else gone through this and it's worked out, or do I sack the band, keep the drummer and build back from the ground up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 He needs a click track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='12stringbassist' timestamp='1452641303' post='2952039'] He needs a click track. [/quote] Yeah, I've gone through the entire 100 songs in the book tonight and put the tempos on, and got a metronome app on my phone which does bleeps/clicks/hi hat/kick pedal sounds and has a tap tempo function. I'm just annoyed I suppose - the other guys have been a bit unprofessional and it's really shown the guitarist up a bit - I always thought his timing was loose, but had my solid foundation laid out to cover it. He's a top bloke and a good mate, but he'll turn up one week with a valve combo, a strat and a cable, the next a full pedal board, the next week "I'm running through the PA with this amp moddler thing" and it's getting to me a bit. His enthusiasm is huge, but then the singers asked me last night if he looked like he wanted out. Maybe I was too focused on the issues in sound last night to judge on people's willingness to carry on. Ah balls, bands. Pain in the hoop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I have had the situation where a drummer was speeding up. My guitarist was far more tactful than I was going to be. He didn't blame the drummer for the speeding up when all four of us were there. He said "WE are speeding up" or "The songs are too fast". He didn't directly blame the drummer at any point, as he was a nice bloke and there was no point in creating an atmosphere. The idea that we ALL worked on the tempos solved the problem in the main. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 I suppose it's the only way - my internal metronome is fine, I practiced when I was younger on my timing. But once two guys are off in their own world or one is following the other, I can't beat them and the singers just habitually speed up to not miss their next line (neither play) So it's time for a 3.5mm Jack into the PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Nick the drummer and go and form another band Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 If you have a speaker for a monitor output just for your drummer, that may fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='12stringbassist' timestamp='1452642566' post='2952054'] If you have a speaker for a monitor output just for your drummer, that may fix it. [/quote] We have monitors for gigs, so I can set one up between us at rehearsals. Only one more box and one more power point. And wouldn't cloud the overall mix too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='Number6' timestamp='1452642565' post='2952053'] Nick the drummer and go and form another band [/quote] One of the singers has said "if this keeps happening, you're f***ing off aren't you?" And my reply was 'nah, no, not at all...' And a bit of me thought...well, maybe 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Perseverance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 [quote name='12stringbassist' timestamp='1452642920' post='2952060'] Perseverance. [/quote] Is that a place in Cornwall, went there as a kid... Jokes aside, it's been difficult going from a few gigs a month to this back to the grindstone thing, and I agree I'm impatient. I need to suck it up, stop being soft and guide my listing ship back to its former glory. Metronome Monday's...our new regime until it's fixed. Cheers x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Timing is everyone's responsibility, not just the drummer's. Having said that, if you're lucky enough to have a really great drummer it certainly helps. And I've been in that situation of being a one-man bass metronome before, and it totally sucks any joy out of the process of playing bass. And like you say, it is really bloody tiring. I hope you get it sorted one way or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 And if the next rehearsal is full of snarky comments perhaps a quiet and gentle word with each member afterwards to say, "Look, the guy's settling in and learning the set and we're getting used to him. It'll take a little time to gel like before but all the snippy comments (from everyone) aren't helping. Any chance you could reign it back while we all get back up to speed. Realise it's a bit frustrating. We're all just trying to work on getting it right. Thanks, really appreciate it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr zed Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I would have a quiet word with the drummer along the lines of "we're the rhythm section and it's up to us to work together to keep the rest of them reigned in". From what you have said, the band seem to respond to the drums & bass tempo anyway so get the drummer on side and you're 90% there. Also gives you some moral support. I hope it works out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Dean Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 If things get to loud & out of control usually because of the guitarist , I would stop everyone & just say "can you hear the bass drum " if you can't it's because you are too loud & not listening " I hope it works out . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 [quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1452667320' post='2952131'] And if the next rehearsal is full of snarky comments perhaps a quiet and gentle word with each member afterwards to say, "Look, the guy's settling in and learning the set and we're getting used to him. It'll take a little time to gel like before but all the snippy comments (from everyone) aren't helping. Any chance you could reign it back while we all get back up to speed. Realise it's a bit frustrating. We're all just trying to work on getting it right. Thanks, really appreciate it." [/quote] Yeah, if I end up frustrated I'll explode whereas if I rock up with the metronome and speaker - I've set my stall out early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dropzone Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Some songs do have a gig speed rather than recorded speed (if you are doing covers), so it may be worth agreeing the tempo that everyone is comfortable with rather than saying this is the tempo and we are rigidly sticking to it. We had a great guitarist with no rhythm once, was very tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interpol52 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1452649834' post='2952092'] Timing is everyone's responsibility, not just the drummer's. Having said that, if you're lucky enough to have a really great drummer it certainly helps. And I've been in that situation of being a one-man bass metronome before, and it totally sucks any joy out of the process of playing bass. And like you say, it is really bloody tiring. I hope you get it sorted one way or another. [/quote] I am having this issue right now, I am the click track in effect. As a result, I'm rapidly losing interest. It doesn't help either that the drummer doesn't properly listen to the songs and learn his part before going into the rehearsal room. Him not knowing the songs enough means that the drum parts are inconsistent and speeding up. I dont need the hassle of band stress so I'm just going to leave. He thinks he is awesome so I can't see it going down well if I tell him that he isn't. Edited January 13, 2016 by interpol52 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) [quote name='interpol52' timestamp='1452680816' post='2952262'] ...It doesn't help that the drummer doesn't properly listen to the songs and learn his part before going into the rehearsal room. I don't need the hassle of band stress so I'm just going to leave. He thinks he is awesome... [/quote] Classic delusional behaviour. I won't tolerate anyone who thinks rehearsal is a time to be learning material. You can't learn a song by listening to it in the car on the way in and then winging it. You're quite right to walk, imho. You can't change people. These days I try to find players with the right attitude from the off, but I appreciate this is no easy task in the real world. Edited January 13, 2016 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Only skimmed through this for now. Looking at your opening post , I think you and mr. Drums should split and form your own band . Everyone knows how hard it is to get a decent drummer at the best of times. It sounds like the others are not giving him much of a chance and he is nervous . Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyTravis Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Dropzone' timestamp='1452680382' post='2952257'] Some songs do have a gig speed rather than recorded speed (if you are doing covers), so it may be worth agreeing the tempo that everyone is comfortable with rather than saying this is the tempo and we are rigidly sticking to it. We had a great guitarist with no rhythm once, was very tricky. [/quote] Agree on this point Edited January 13, 2016 by AndyTravis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingsta Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Yeah, it seems like you need to have a word in the shell of both the guitarist and singer. They should be doing everything in their power to help new drummer get up to speed and taking a responsibility in solving the timing issues. While the drummer is usually the dominant time keeper, there's a collective responsibility for everyone to listen to each other and not pull the timing all over the place. Our drummer will ask for sessions where we turn on the click if he thinks we need to go back to basics regarding timing and its accepted by everyone without question. You can bum the odd note when you perform and by and large no one in the audience notices, but if they band isn't tight or the tempo starts galloping away, thats something which affects the whole performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Given that the drummer can't realistically memorise all of the tempos of the songs in our set list - we bought (as a band) one of these I can recommend them highly. [url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/tama-rw200-rhythm-watch/117692?gclid=CMGDtb_-psoCFUEcGwodPp0JVg"]http://www.gak.co.uk/en/tama-rw200-rhythm-watch/117692?gclid=CMGDtb_-psoCFUEcGwodPp0JVg[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 [quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1452695147' post='2952510'] Given that the drummer can't realistically memorise all of the tempos of the songs in our set list - we bought (as a band) one of these I can recommend them highly. [url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/tama-rw200-rhythm-watch/117692?gclid=CMGDtb_-psoCFUEcGwodPp0JVg"]http://www.gak.co.uk...CFUEcGwodPp0JVg[/url] [/quote] Seconded. These things are great, they cut out all manner of "I reckon that's faster than we normally do it" arguments too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 [quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1452695147' post='2952510'] Given that the drummer can't realistically memorise all of the tempos of the songs in our set list - we bought (as a band) one of these I can recommend them highly. [/quote] They ARE good, but I was once in a band with a drummer who was, er... 'less than metronomic' - he'd listen to the click, then furiously start the number at a completely different tempo. What can you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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