peteb Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I read something on here once about the advantages of using similar cabs with the same speaker size was that all the speakers would be doing the same thing at the same time and therefore you would get an efficiency gain. This seemed to make sense, even to a non-technical person like me so I tried it and, yes, two identical cabs did sound better. Since then I have not mixed speaker sizes. However, I think this is a general rather than a ‘blanket’ rule and I am sure that there are certain cabs with different speaker sizes have been designed to work well together… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1452785475' post='2953504'] I read something on here once about the advantages of using similar cabs with the same speaker size was that all the speakers would be doing the same thing at the same time and therefore you would get an efficiency gain. [/quote]You almost always get a sensitivity gain. That's why so many users of mixed cabs rave about the combination. But the reality is that virtually [i]any [/i]two cabs together will sound better than either on its own, partly due to the sensitivity gain, partly by the upper cab making it possible to hear your mids, rather than have them all pass you by south of your equator. [quote] I'd need it to be proved the cabs [i]didn't [/i]work together rather than the other way around.[/quote]Going by that criteria one can make a solid case that the sun revolves about the earth. In the immortal words of the late President Reagan, "Trust, but verify". Without peer-reviewable data one cannot verify manufacturer claims, no matter who they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbandit599 Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 I've got EBS Neo 210 and 212 - they do sound different to each other, and great together. I quite like the fact that I could gig with either one to suit the venue, or preferably both! Would tend to use the 212 by itself for smallish gigs but the 210 is great for small rehearsal spaces etc. For me, I like the options that different cabs give. Do tend to turn one of the tweeters off when I have both. I'm also usually not in the pa (guitars, kick and vox are) - so like and need the extra grunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 (edited) [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1452784159' post='2953488'] As for Mr Boogie & Mr Tino, I don't know if either of them have been on here or not, but I've not seen any advice on here about which cabs are suited together. I don't think it's so much a case of whether it works, but how unpredictable the sound is going to be. [/quote] CamdenRob has a Berg 210. Jim Berganino's new amp has a profile for using the same 210 with a 112 from the same range. Put any spin you like. . . Bergs are OK to mix according to one of the best cab builders working today. Edited January 14, 2016 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1452673431' post='2952176'] One of my favourite rigs is my Compact (15" driver) with my Midget (12" driver). [/quote] Mine too! IIRC the reason this works is because both of these drivers use the same 'motor'. If you just mix speakers at random, you won't do any harm, but the results will be unpredictable. If you like the result, go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1452787691' post='2953532'] You almost always get a sensitivity gain. That's why so many users of mixed cabs rave about the combination. But the reality is that virtually [i]any [/i]two cabs together will sound better than either on its own, partly due to the sensitivity gain, partly by the upper cab making it possible to hear your mids, rather than have them all pass you by south of your equator. [/quote] I should mention that I was using two cabs with different sized speakers before and then changed to two identical cabs (two 410s), so it isn't just because of moving from one cab to two.. As I understand it (and I'm not particularly technical by nature) the efficiency gain is because all of the speakers are moving together, [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]doing the same thing at the same time and are therefore all the speakers are perfectly in phase with each other. [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]For example, this may not happen if you were to mix 10s with say 15s, you might expect the 10s to move faster than the 15s and with a shorter excursion. I would imagine that if cabs with different speakers are made to be used together they are engineered for the different speakers to have a similar [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]excursion (assuming that [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]excursion [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]is the right word). [/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1452811815' post='2953827'] As I understand it (and I'm not particularly technical by nature) the efficiency gain is because all of the speakers are moving together, [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]doing the same thing at the same time and are therefore all the speakers are perfectly in phase with each other. [/quote]That will be the case with identical speakers placed very close together. If they're not identical phase issues are a given. [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][quote] this may not happen if you were to mix 10s with say 15s, you might expect the 10s to move faster than the 15s and with a shorter excursion. [/font][/color][/quote]All driver cones move at the same speed with the same signal applied. The issue with shorter xmax is that it will be the weak link in the chain. Driver size and xmax aren't directly related. You can find tens with 10mm and fifteens with 1mm. [quote][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I would imagine that if cabs with different speakers are made to be used together they are engineered for the different speakers to have a similar [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]excursion (assuming that [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]excursion [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]is the right word).[/font][/color][/quote]That is one concern, but not the only one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1452811815' post='2953827'] As I understand it (and I'm not particularly technical by nature) the efficiency gain is because all of the speakers are moving together, [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]doing the same thing at the same time and are therefore all the speakers are perfectly in phase with each other. [/font][/color] [/quote] Even identical drivers are only in phase with each other up to a specific frequency, at which point they start to interfere with each other - and they normally do so well within the passband of the bass guitar. So using multiple identical (or non-identical) drivers across the entire bass guitar frequency range is not an ideal solution in theory, even though it appears to work reasonably well in practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1452855873' post='2954077'] So using multiple identical (or non-identical) drivers across the entire bass guitar frequency range is not an ideal solution in theory, even though it appears to work reasonably well in practice. [/quote] Sounds to me like the theory needs re-visiting then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1452866720' post='2954242'] Sounds to me like the theory needs re-visiting then. [/quote] Not really its all about degrees of goodness. A single small driver with massive excursion is best from a dispersion viewpoint but not exactly going to be very practical and efficient if taken to extremes. An in line array of small identical ones is generally the next best thing so long as you only need good dispersion at right angles to the array hence the popularity of vertical arrays for pro sound systems, a vertical array of different speakers (e.g. a bass rig with different cabs stacked vertically) is the next step down the desirability scale but may still do a decent enough job for many situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 [quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1452886862' post='2954526'] .An in line array of small identical ones is generally the next best thing so long as you only need good dispersion at right angles to the array hence the popularity of vertical arrays for pro sound systems [/quote]What works for PA works just as well for bass. What doesn't work well for either is drivers placed side by side, unless a .5 alignment is used, as in some Barefaced models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Does mixed speaker diameter and EQ get much discussion? As a non-technical type bassist, I always wondered (way before t'interweb) how you EQ your signal when using mixed drivers (separate cabs). Common sense would dictate that if you were EQing your sound it would be a compromise between the cabs, whereas identical drivers/cabs would take the same EQing... does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Much good advice here already. The only issue I can think you might have is if there is large difference in the efficiency of the different cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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