Confused Jazzer

[gypsyjazzer]

Questions for the jazz players out there when taking a solo:

[b]How do you play your solo's? [/b]What percentage of the below questions would you give?

From muscle memory?
Make up interesting musical phrases? --by going 'outside' of the chord, but adding the chord tones occasionally?
Plenty of chromatic notes?
When playing a [b]very fast[/b] bebop tune how do you have time to think?--By the 'seat of your pants'-- as they say
Your knowledge welcome.

[Hector]

Soloing on the upright bass is a tricky one. It's not really possible to beat the sax/piano players at their own game, and that route is a tough one that requires a LOT of facility on the instrument. Very few blow like Bird on the upright.

Muscle memory is important in bass playing, not sure you can really play it at all without it! 100% then I guess. Is it pre-learned licks? Nah, more like stringing lots of shapes/patterns/ideas to create something new. Artists mix extraordinary colours from primaries.

Chromatic notes? Yes, a bit, to embellish chord tones.

Fast tunes? Stop thinking in tiny chunks - think about the general harmonic movement, and the key of the tune/section of tune you're in. If you think from chord to chord you're bound to lose out. You need to think in bigger harmonic chunks. You could try using upper extensions that makes sense. For example, chords within a key can roughly be classified as functioning as I (I iii vi) or as V (IV V vii), and can be used interchangeably to an extent. Try looping a I-vi-ii-V and make phrases. The trick with this approach to is to be aware of the chord tones of the current chord, especially to generate a sense of V-I motion.

A great book with an approach that is extremely usable for bass players is Dan Greenblatt's book on the blues scales: http://www.shermusic.com/new/1883217385.shtml

In particular, it suggests that use of minor and major pentatonics (with added notes to make them minor and major blues scales) can make up a large part of your vocabulary without needing to think about a chord/scale for every note. He later expands this simple approach to adding more notes to these scales, based on what chords you are playing over. e.g. You can add a B natural over G7, the VI chord in Bb, but you haven't gotta! In the end you're left with an approach where you can play the key of the moment using either scale, but expand this to incorporate non-diatonic chord tones if they appear. Combined with a dash of bebop chromaticism to embellish your chord tones, you're really cooking with gas.

I would say this sort of pentatonic/blues scale thinking is a strong foundation for soloing, and allows itself to be expanded to incorporate more advanced concepts like the altered scale etc. to add a bit of extra colour and movement.

Of course, this is towards more traditional harmony type things, rather than thinking about modern tunes with non-functional progressions.

[Dad3353]

All of the above is spot-on; I'd just like to add that, in my view, it's useful to be able to play what one can sing (or hum, or mumble, depending on vocal ability...). It's true that 'wood-shedding' over all sorts of chords, arpeggios and the like will give much more 'muscle memory' material', but if, without the instrument, one can improvise 'vocally' over the basic melody or harmonic structure, that's what to play in 'real time'. This can be practised at any time (in the car, in the bath, whilst swimming... no, forget that last one...), and is fun to do once back with the instrument. 'Think' the lines, then play 'em, until the two come together at one and the same time. This, whatever the instrument; I do this with bass, guitar and drums (no, not all of those at the same time, you fool..!), and in any idiom, not 'simply' jazz. Do all of the technical chord tones, chromatics et al, but sing the stuff out loud or in your head and follow that, too.
Just my tuppence-worth; hope it helps.

[gypsyjazzer]

Great replies Hector & Dad3353---great info. Thanks for that.

[AustinArto]

I can't solo over fast changes I just don't have any experience of it and I go totally to pot, but soloing generally if a tune has big weird harmonic jumps in it I'll have to know it inside-out beforehand, and I always wing it, I don't solo that often so I try to enjoy it when I do and make it matter, so I don't do 'licks' and I don't worry too much about what came before I just try to express myself. Usually because I'm a bit slow that means I'm not going to set anybody on fire with technique I just want to get my mood across and make some people smile.

[SteveJ]

[quote name='AustinArto' timestamp='1452818462' post='2953868']
I can't solo over fast changes I just don't have any experience of it and I go totally to pot, but soloing generally if a tune has big weird harmonic jumps in it I'll have to know it inside-out beforehand, and I always wing it, I don't solo that often so I try to enjoy it when I do and make it matter, so I don't do 'licks' and I don't worry too much about what came before I just try to express myself. Usually because I'm a bit slow that means I'm not going to set anybody on fire with technique I just want to get my mood across and make some people smile.
[/quote]

Much the same here. I tend to slow down rather than risk speeding up and fluffing it.

[Jebo1]

I've got a really great book about double bass solo playing. I'm actually selling it, so I could send you details?

[gypsyjazzer]

PM'ed.

[The Jaywalker]

There's two main issues as far as I see it.
What are your aspirations as a soloist?
What's your technical level?

Learning chord tones; chord scales; Harmony; upper structure triads; using chromatic approach notes etc etc - all that's a given. You need that stuff.

Decide what kind of soloing approach you are into; and more importantly, what kind of approach feels right when you play it. You can be head over heels with Eddie Gomez's solos but your own aesthetic voice wants to play simple Paul Chambers influenced stuff because it "feels" right to you.
Now, look at your technique - is it up to playing what you want to play? For a lot of guys that's a no; because they practise walking time and little else, even when shedding scales. If you're going to solo effectively, imho you need headroom with your technique. Get those scales, arpeggios and shifts faster and smoother, in a classical fashion.

All this stuff is obvious I guess; but the main question is what you're thinking of when soloing. That's more difficult. If you're on an uninspiring gig, it's difficult to find something to say. If it's a great gig with loads to bounce off from the other musicians, I find ideas come more easily. In the words of Arild Andersen - 'Don't think: concentrate!'

[Bilbo]

Great replies above. My perspective is, it depends on how well you know the material. I do gigs every week with a whole range of artists who bring varying levels of expectation to each gig. If I get called to solo on a blues, I am in the zone and am playing entirely my own ideas executed by ear etc. If I am playing rhtyhm changes at 320 bpm, like I was last week with Simon Spillett, I am using a much higher degree of muscle memory interspersed with bullshit. If I am on a ballad I don't know with a range of complex harmonies, I am invariably crashing and burning It's all of the above. Some of my solos are strong, some are weak and some are total trainwrecks. Improvisation is, by definition, a high risk undertaking and you are going to be unhappy with what you do most of the time. It's the thrill of the chase as much as it is the winning. I cannot, for instance, do anything meaningful with Giant Steps. Too fast, too complex for my little ears. I know some very competent players who can get through it but who feel the same; it's maths not music. Then you hear someone like Chris Potter do it and you think 'I am a w*****'.

[gypsyjazzer]

Great replies everybody. Much appreciated with your thoughts -and experience.