Andyjr1515 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) Hi I've had a number of queries about my slightly unconventional approach to gloss finishes. Rather than posting links to threads on other forums, I thought it might be of interest to some of you to cut and paste one of my other threads on the topic here: I use a wipe-on technique for varnishing, using standard old-fashioned household polyurethane varnish. I don't have anywhere satisfactory indoors to spray either cans or spray-guns and needed to find a method that I could in in a spare room rather than having to wait for a dry, still, insect and pollen-free day everytime I wanted to finish a bass or guitar There are a few plus's and minus's:[list=1] [*]It will never look [i]quite[/i] the same as a well applied and properly buffed spray finish [*]It isn't as tough as a commercial poly finish - but it is tough! [*]You can put a couple of coats on per day (One 1st thing in the morning and one in the early evening) [*]For a wood or veneer finish it produces a very acceptable result [*]For a plain colour (just done one in the finisher's nightmare - gloss black), it takes a number of tips and tricks to get it OK (but refer back to point 1!) [*]There are some important differences - the main being that you DO NOT buff to a final finish....in fact you CAN NOT buff to a final finish. The technique is different because the chemistry is different. More on this later.. [/list] The kit I use is simple: Ronseal Hardglaze or Rustins Clear Polyurethane varnish; White Spirits to thin it; hence the jam jar; rubber glove; cheap, disposable microfibre cloths. I am still using the original 'high volatiles' varnishes - simply because I haven't experimented enough with some of the more modern low volatiles ones. That's a summer project for me... I'm sure you have, but if you haven't yet discovered micro-fibre cloths, it's worth doing so. They are:[list] [*]Generally dirt cheap (except the specialist ones, see below) I think these were less than a fiver for 4 in Homebase. [*]COMPLETELY dust free and lint free - but never cut them otherwise there's bits everywhere [*]Soft and fluffy, very absorbent for the varnish [/list] I use one more type of micro-fibre cloth, a particular type, as the best 'tack rag' I've ever used. It's a window-cleaning cloth and I think it cost about £6. My dust bugs issues have vanished since going from decorators sticky tack rags to this: The technique is simple:[list] [*]thin varnish with about 30% white spirits [*]don rubber glove [*]wipe over surface with micro-fibre 'tack rag' [*]take corner of cheapo micro-fibre cloth [*]dip in thinned varnish, squeeze out excess [*]wipe on [/list] This is a heavily figured veneered top after about 5 coats (over 2 days)...note that I'm doing it over a CARPET!! Actually, I forgot to put the newspaper down but got away with it. It only drips if you major-ly overcharge the cloth: Although I said above that it's not the best way for a plain sprayed colour, it still isn't terrible...PaulS of this parish persuaded me (under duress and suitable cautionary words to manage expectations ) to do him a gloss black body...the most challenging of any colours: There are some important tips and tricks, like with everything. I'm sure there are others, but these come to mind:[list] [*]Wipe with a good quality 'tack rag' (see above for my recommendation) to ensure the surface is dust free. Try to keep dust to a minimum! Remember spray finishes dry within seconds...this takes an hour or so and plenty of time for the dust buggies to land and sink in [*]Apply multiple thin coats. Maximum 2 per day (one in morning and one in evening) [*]Flatten with 1000 grit, used wet, every 6 or so coats [*]After 5-6 days, there should be sufficient thickness. Let it cure for at least 3 -5 days [*]Flatten with 1000 grit used wet (if necessary) and finish with 2000 grit used wet [*]Ensure varnish is properly thinned...maybe go up to 40% thinners at this stage. Dip the microfibre in the varnish and squeeze it almost all out then apply a VERY light coat. Let it dry. Apply a second VERY light coat and, if necessary a third. [*]Don't buff - nitro coats 'melt' into previously applied coats. Poly applied like this doesn't do this so buffing will simply wear away the shiny top coat and expose the sanded under coat [*]Leave at least 1 week (2 is better) then polish with good quality, low abrasion auto polish (Macguiers Ultra is a good one) [/list] Hope this helps - if you try the approach let's see how you get on and don't hesitate to contact me Oh - and by the way, it was this present camphor and alder build in Build Diaries that sparked off the interest. Not bad for a pot of household varnish and a cheap rag : Edited January 19, 2016 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulnb57 Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Andy, thanks very much for sharing this...I will be using this method...... Cheers! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Interesting - I hear you about the dust. Do you cover the instrument, or just put it in a room where nothing is allowed to deposit dust while it drys? It does seem to be a very good method - I'll probably do some test pieces using this method in the coming months - I think it should produce very acceptable results with great care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastav Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Im keen to try this method aswell, seems to be working very well for you in any case. Do you do front and back all at once or one side at a time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 [quote name='Bastav' timestamp='1453213357' post='2957451'] Im keen to try this method aswell, seems to be working very well for you in any case. Do you do front and back all at once or one side at a time? [/quote] Hi, Bastav When it's a bolt on neck, I bolt the body onto a long piece of timber and clamp that in the workmate so I can do all 4 surfaces at the same time. Much easier to avoid runs that way. With a thru neck, it's one side at a time but taking as much care that there are no runs as possible. With wipe on, holding the body horizontally is much more successful than hanging vertically as is more normal for spray finishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 [quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1453212138' post='2957437'] Interesting - I hear you about the dust. Do you cover the instrument, or just put it in a room where nothing is allowed to deposit dust while it drys? It does seem to be a very good method - I'll probably do some test pieces using this method in the coming months - I think it should produce very acceptable results with great care. [/quote] Just sensible precautions. I try to use a room that hasn't been occupied for an hour or so; take off jumper; roll sleeves up; approach body from each side rather than leaning across it; exiting room slowly (especially door) when varnish applied and leaving room undisturbed for the first 3/4 hour or so...oh...and not letting the f*****g cat get in there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblueplanet Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 Beautiful results Andy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 (edited) Andy you are a star. I am just about to finish my bass and this is brilliant. I have a couple of questions, 1. What grit do you sand the body to? 2. Can you varnish straight over wood dye or do you need to seal it first? BTW have you tried Rustins Plastic Coating? Thanks Edited January 20, 2016 by Chienmortbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 This is very interesting, thanks for sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 [quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1453294842' post='2958144'] Andy you are a star. I am just about to finish my bass and this is brilliant. I have a couple of questions, 1. What grit do you sand the body to? 2. Can you varnish straight over wood dye or do you need to seal it first? BTW have you tried Rustins Plastic Coating? Thanks [/quote] Hi, Chienmortbb Thanks! I usually take any ridges or debris down with 1000 grit used wet, and ditto for the final flattening, but then take it to 2000 grit used wet before the final few finishing coats. You can seal first or not - in the latter case, it will take 4-5 coats before the true gloss gets there on any end grain. The nice thing is that it is pretty un-reactive - I varnish over plain wood, stained wood, painted wood, primed wood, sanding sealed wood, tru-oil, other varnish, etc, quite happily and personally have never had anything react badly (except, of course, trying to varnish over wax polish or silicon!). Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 20, 2016 Author Share Posted January 20, 2016 [quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1453294842' post='2958144'] Andy you are a star. I am just about to finish my bass and this is brilliant. I have a couple of questions, 1. What grit do you sand the body to? 2. Can you varnish straight over wood dye or do you need to seal it first? BTW have you tried Rustins Plastic Coating? Thanks [/quote] I've never tried Rustins Plastic Coating...it can produce excellent results but can go horribly wrong too. Also there are some modern water based varnishes that are actually CLEAR and dry properly hard, (although some of the better ones are only available in industrial quantities). I have it in mind to do some experimenting this summer. In the meantime, this technique does me OK with my limited facilities... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deksawyer Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Andy, I've read a lot of your build posts, but I have to say I've never noticed the shine before. Amazing. I'm considering a refin on my Stingray body - would you be willing to take that on at all, albeit NOT [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]under duress but WITH suitable cautionary words to manage expectations? [/font][/color] Not sure of colours but its natural ATM. And BTW, it's the very first time I've considered having it refinished.... cheers D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 20, 2016 Share Posted January 20, 2016 Thanks for this Andy. I've been wondering what to do with an 80s bass with a ply body. You've got me thinking now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1453324785' post='2958536'] Thanks for this Andy. I've been wondering what to do with an 80s bass with a ply body. You've got me thinking now. [/quote] Why not have a go . You know you want to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='deksawyer' timestamp='1453322391' post='2958500'] Andy, I've read a lot of your build posts, but I have to say I've never noticed the shine before. Amazing. I'm considering a refin on my Stingray body - would you be willing to take that on at all, albeit NOT [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]under duress but WITH suitable cautionary words to manage expectations? [/font][/color] Not sure of colours but its natural ATM. And BTW, it's the very first time I've considered having it refinished.... cheers D. [/quote] PM'd deksawyer Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I can only say that the pic of my black bass does not do it justice, despite my ugly mug reflected on the back. Think 'deep, glossy piano finish' and you are getting nearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Andy is this the polish? http://www.meguiars.co.uk/shop/ultra-finishing-polish-237ml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 Hi Chienmortbb No - it's this one: http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/car-polish-compounds/meguiars-ultimate-compound/prod_554.html I also use their carnuba wax. I'll find a link for that one too in a sec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) ...and I think this is the carnauba wax I use for the final sparkle. It smells great, by the way http://www.amazon.co.uk/Meguiars-Deep-Crystal-Step-Carnauba/dp/B00078XL2O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453845474&sr=8-1&keywords=meguiars+carnauba+wax Edited January 26, 2016 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 It looks like the Ultimate Compound is a Burnishing Cream and it gets really good reviews for cars. The wax also gets good reviews, expensive but when I see your results, it is worth it. Can also use the excess on the Car 😎 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 [quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1453889343' post='2963751'] It looks like the Ultimate Compound is a Burnishing Cream and it gets really good reviews for cars. The wax also gets good reviews, expensive but when I see your results, it is worth it. Can also use the excess on the Car 😎 [/quote] Not certain you need the wax, but I always use it for the final sparkle. Going to use both in the next couple of days for Kert's camphor single cut build. It's within a gnats whisker of being complete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Post-script - this is the Camphor and Alder after just the Ultimate Compound. No wax was needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Andy that is a thing of beauty. What bridge and machine heads did you use on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 [quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1453991107' post='2965054'] Andy that is a thing of beauty. What bridge and machine heads did you use on it? [/quote] The tuners are Hipshot ultra-lites...cost a fortune! The bridge, on the other hand, is from Axesrus...very good bang for the buck. I've used them before and they are excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Fascinating reading - I've just had my first go at a Danish oil refin & by complete coincidence, my method was near-identical to yours. From what I'd read I had expected the final result to be a fairly low-key satin finish - and was surprised that the two final coats post-sanding actually left me with a gloss I can pretty much see my ghastly mug in. I was quite taken aback by the quality. So I did find myself wondering if this method of application would work as well for other types of finish. Having read this, I'm quite inspired to have a crack at a thinned varnish or solid colour finish now. Jon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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