cheddatom Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1453342646' post='2958646'] ... I've never been in this for creativity or art... [/quote] Some of us are ONLY in it for creativity and art! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Two bands with whom I'm friends played at my birthday party for a slab of beer and food. They're good friends though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Had a lady call me a couple of weeks back, asking if she could book The Junkyard Dogs for her 50th and how much did we charge. This is not a friend of the band, but she's been to enough of our pub gigs to know that we are the band she wanted. I told her that we play pub gigs for £250 but we charge significantly more for private functions and explained why. It quickly emerged was that she wants her 50th to be simply a party in a pub where she gets to choose the band that plays ... in other words, from our point of view this is just another pub gig. So we're charging her £250. I have no problem with that at all. Reverting to another post by the OP (above), if we were to turn up and play for £250 and then find that she had also engaged a DJ and was paying him £500, that wouldn't worry me. I'm not concerned about how much others earn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Some people are doing parties in pubs... I can kind of understand it. The LL pays the band and keeps the beer..and the party person pays for the food to be free. The problem with that is you can't lock out people you don't know as you don't pay for the whole event It is kind of doing things on the cheap..... so there are lots of variations. Sometimes a birthday party just shows up...and you have a great night but if they approach us direct and anyone in the band.. then no one is stupid enough to real off a price..they get the detail, introduce them to the guy who does the bookings and go from there. It is known and agreed that parties are £100 plus per man so if the mate/mates wants to waive their fee, that brings the price down by that figure. Most of the parties we do ..we'd be the cheapest element of the night.. after the marquee, caterers, etc etc ... by some way,..... even at £850... Edited January 21, 2016 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1453343138' post='2958647'] No offense but playing for free does not seem like a benefit to me. So your band gives away all of time and effort you've invested in learning a craft, travel expense, and providing sound and lights, tear down and set up? If yes,if I ever need a band I'm calling you. Blue [/quote] The answer is, of course, 'Yes', but I won't be coming to the US any time soon, since the 'security folks' stole my nail clippers at the airport, upon leaving Chicago. Funny ol' place. We give gladly; I also give away garden produce and jam that we make. I like making jam, but there's far too much made for us ever to consume in a year, so we give away to anyone that wants a jar or so. I also 'give away' my time helping folks with PC problems, and a young lad with no income needing a rear light on his scooter. I'd rather buy and fit him a rear light than have him knocked down for lack of visibility. Yes, it's daft to some, but we're not likely to change our ways, as it keeps us and others happy enough, whilst doing no harm. Life can be so simple at times. An aside benefit is that I don't have any worries about money or accountants, having nothing worth counting. Crazy..? Surely, but content to be so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1453373549' post='2958808'] Reverting to another post by the OP (above), if we were to turn up and play for £250 and then find that she had also engaged a DJ and was paying him £500, that wouldn't worry me. I'm not concerned about how much others earn. [/quote] .. And that's why you're happy, Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1453373549' post='2958808'] ................................. Reverting to another post by the OP (above), if we were to turn up and play for £250 and then find that she had also engaged a DJ and was paying him £500, that wouldn't worry me. I'm not concerned about how much others earn. [/quote] See, that would bother me as I'd rate us as more valuable...just by more people being involved, even with out the perceived skillset disparity, so I wouldn't want to work cheaper than a lot of DJ's...(they are likely to be a two man team as well) and is one of the reasons why we set the party rates that we do. Same may apply to PA and lights... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykesbass Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1453373549' post='2958808'] Reverting to another post by the OP (above), if we were to turn up and play for £250 and then find that she had also engaged a DJ and was paying him £500, that wouldn't worry me. I'm not concerned about how much others earn. [/quote] It would be nice to think that we (collectively) were being treated fairly though. I got stung with a wedding gig, where I got a decent enough fee, but then found out what the band got paid. Now I can understand the bandleader taking some extra, even an extra split, but this was more than that, AND we'd all contributed to the rehearsal room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1453368817' post='2958742'] Some of us are ONLY in it for creativity and art! [/quote] It's a business and it's about money just like everything else. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1453381389' post='2958924'] It would be nice to think that we (collectively) were being treated fairly though. I got stung with a wedding gig, where I got a decent enough fee, but then found out what the band got paid. Now I can understand the bandleader taking some extra, even an extra split, but this was more than that, AND we'd all contributed to the rehearsal room. [/quote] Another good example supporting this is a business. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453378857' post='2958878'] The answer is, of course, 'Yes', but I won't be coming to the US any time soon, since the 'security folks' stole my nail clippers at the airport, upon leaving Chicago. Funny ol' place. We give gladly; I also give away garden produce and jam that we make. I like making jam, but there's far too much made for us ever to consume in a year, so we give away to anyone that wants a jar or so. I also 'give away' my time helping folks with PC problems, and a young lad with no income needing a rear light on his scooter. I'd rather buy and fit him a rear light than have him knocked down for lack of visibility. Yes, it's daft to some, but we're not likely to change our ways, as it keeps us and others happy enough, whilst doing no harm. Life can be so simple at times. An aside benefit is that I don't have any worries about money or accountants, having nothing worth counting. Crazy..? Surely, but content to be so.[/quote] Well if I'm ever in your part of the UK and I need a band or if anyone I know needs a band were calling you. Fair and a good debate. However, me personally,I'm not seeing the connection between your comparisons and a band going out, traveling, performing, setting and tearing down for free. Providing those other services for free to those in need makes sense. Doing gigs for free, like you said, daft. Blue Edited January 21, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) [quote name='cameltoe' timestamp='1453322195' post='2958498'] Our guy has no family, so doesn't really understand how precious time actually is for the rest of us, especially at a weekend. When your sacrificing that to drive 80 miles to play for £30 each, to an audience of 3 people, who'd rather you weren't there, it can be really demotivating as a musician I find.[/quote] Well, driving 80 miles for a $30.00 a man show is certainly a good example of a bad gig. Bad business too. Did you guys actually play a gig like that? Blue Edited January 21, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='vmaxblues' timestamp='1453361592' post='2958679'] and I did a mates party recently with my other band and me and the drummer who were mates with him took no fee but the others had their full rate. [/quote] Seems to me you've answered your own question here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1453381389' post='2958924'] It would be nice to think that we (collectively) were being treated fairly though. I got stung with a wedding gig, where I got a decent enough fee, but then found out what the band got paid. Now I can understand the bandleader taking some extra, even an extra split, but this was more than that, AND we'd all contributed to the rehearsal room. [/quote] He should have paid for the rehearsal. I used to co-run a band that had a brass section. We payed everyone a flat fee regardless of what the 'band' was paid from the client. One of the brass players got upset at a wedding gig saying they should be getting more for the wedding gig than the pub and party gigs. So after a lot of huffing and puffing and flouncing we agreed an equal split at ALL gigs. She was very unhappy when we gave her £20 at the next pub gig. She was effectively "paying to play" Soon after that she would only be 'available' for weddings and functions. You can't run a band when individuals are deciding when to play based on what they get paid on a gig by gig basis. Everyone needs to be available all the time and take the highs with the lows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1453405875' post='2959305'] He should have paid for the rehearsal. I used to co-run a band that had a brass section. We payed everyone a flat fee regardless of what the 'band' was paid from the client. One of the brass players got upset at a wedding gig saying they should be getting more for the wedding gig than the pub and party gigs. So after a lot of huffing and puffing and flouncing we agreed an equal split at ALL gigs. She was very unhappy when we gave her £20 at the next pub gig. She was effectively "paying to play" Soon after that she would only be 'available' for weddings and functions. You can't run a band when individuals are deciding when to play based on what they get paid on a gig by gig basis. Everyone needs to be available all the time and take the highs with the lows. [/quote] I think unequal splits are fine as soon as a band can break away from the $400.00-$500.00 bar gigs and into m the 2k and above arena. That $400.00 - $500.00 range, it's not enough money to quibble over. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1453405875' post='2959305'] He should have paid for the rehearsal. I used to co-run a band that had a brass section. We payed everyone a flat fee regardless of what the 'band' was paid from the client. One of the brass players got upset at a wedding gig saying they should be getting more for the wedding gig than the pub and party gigs. So after a lot of huffing and puffing and flouncing we agreed an equal split at ALL gigs. She was very unhappy when we gave her £20 at the next pub gig. She was effectively "paying to play" Soon after that she would only be 'available' for weddings and functions. [b]You can't run a band when individuals are deciding when to play based on what they get paid on a gig by gig basis. Everyone needs to be available all the time and take the highs with the lows.[/b] [/quote] I'd say you can't dictate what some one wants to earn...if they are worth it..and if you can pay you will. We wouldn't have those players on certain gigs because we couldn't afford them..they'd certainly not set aside a date for £60... but they'll do it for that if they don't have work that night... much closer to the time, We pay min fee but everyone gets that the BIG payers do, to some extent subsidise that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz39 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 You can't win: Option A - take the £200 and you'll get loads of calls in the future for work and then 'but you only charged thingy £200,' or Option B - explain why £200 for a wedding is (diplomatically) not acceptable, and you're the bad guy. Because after all, it's just a hobby, right and we'll give you beer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1453408799' post='2959343'] I'd say you can't dictate what some one wants to earn...if they are worth it..and if you can pay you will. We wouldn't have those players on certain gigs because we couldn't afford them..they'd certainly not set aside a date for £60... but they'll do it for that if they don't have work that night... much closer to the time, We pay min fee but everyone gets that the BIG payers do, to some extent subsidise that. [/quote] Depends how you're running a band. If you have a list of deps it's different to wanting to put out the same band to each gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1453399895' post='2959215']...Doing gigs for free, like you said, daft... [/quote] Just finished final rehearsal before our first gig of the year tomorrow week, supporting a mate's band in Mayenne, about 20 miles away. PA, lights, sound tech etc should be there, so only half a truck to load up. 'Twill be good, as we've known each other for nigh on 10 years or so. Hoping to not have too much ice or snow, so that folks can turn up. I'll report after as to how it went. What was that..? For free..? Of course..! We're daft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1453411836' post='2959386'] Depends how you're running a band. If you have a list of deps it's different to wanting to put out the same band to each gig. [/quote] I'd want to put out the best band so they need to be available and you need to be able to pay that rate that day. Horns will charge £350 for a pair on summer saturday nights, so if you want them, that is what they'll quote you. I'd pay it because I know what they offer, but I have to have the budget as well. Nearer the time, if they aren't working...their fee might be more reasonable, but you aren't going to leave it that late. havings said that..horns are desirable rather than absolutely necessary, so you might..?? For that money, I don't expect deps ...even if they might not be regular. They will have to seemlessly fit in...and that one of the things that makes them worth the money. It is hard to put out the same band as the best guys are the most busiest and the reason you want them is the reason everyone else wants them.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453378857' post='2958878'] The answer is, of course, 'Yes', but I won't be coming to the US any time soon, since the 'security folks' stole my nail clippers at the airport, upon leaving Chicago. Funny ol' place. We give gladly; I also give away garden produce and jam that we make. I like making jam, but there's far too much made for us ever to consume in a year, so we give away to anyone that wants a jar or so. I also 'give away' my time helping folks with PC problems, and a young lad with no income needing a rear light on his scooter. I'd rather buy and fit him a rear light than have him knocked down for lack of visibility. Yes, it's daft to some, but we're not likely to change our ways, as it keeps us and others happy enough, whilst doing no harm. Life can be so simple at times. An aside benefit is that I don't have any worries about money or accountants, having nothing worth counting. Crazy..? Surely, but content to be so. [/quote] I like your world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1453414161' post='2959414'] I like your world [/quote] [sharedmedia=core:attachments:167485] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 [quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1453414161' post='2959414'] I like your world [/quote] Me too. It's nice to be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1453418011' post='2959459'] Me too. It's nice to be nice. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1453418011' post='2959459'] It's nice to be nice. [/quote] Very true - it's nice to get paid occasionally as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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