Beedster Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1453488616' post='2960033'] I presume this is yet another cover band only discussion? [/quote] Not from my perspective no, we play originals and often play free, especially for friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1453489546' post='2960043'] Not from my perspective no, we play originals and often play free, especially for friends. [/quote] The money figures being bandied about in the thread recently don't bear any resemblance to my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 There's a lot of "my willy is bigger than your willy" going on mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1453400674' post='2959227'] Well, driving 80 miles for a $30.00 a man show is certainly a good example of a bad gig. Bad business too. Did you guys actually play a gig like that? Blue [/quote] Blue I have to ask a question , you are banging on about doing these bar gigs as a business , paying for your living , you claim to be doing around 75 bar gigs a year, paying $400- $500 a time and the occasional festival . If we average that at $450 That strikes me that your share is $112.50 a gig at 75 gigs makes $8,400 , if we include another $1,000 for the odd festival or 3 , gives earnings of $9,400 that is of course before expenses , travelling costs , fuel , strings etc I may be well wide of the mark, but you seem to have freely offered up the info I have picked this up from and it thus seems to gives you an approximate income when worked out in sterling of £6,580 . Tell me I have missed something here , because it just doesn't seem right that you can live on this as your only source of income, sorry if I have misconstrued anything in my thoughts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcKay Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='Daz39' timestamp='1453482571' post='2959967'] All bands have to start somewhere. A similar argument persists with e.g. aviation and the publishing world (both of which I have had experience of), in which the common whine is that new entrants are making it a 'race to the bottom' by undervaluing themselves. If you have a problem with others valuing themselves for less than yourself, you need to ensure you are properly differentiated to get the required attention. If these pubs want to pay peanuts they will get monkeys (as it were.) You can't directly attribute falling pub numbers to rubbish bands. There's a lot more to do with social drinking culture, the spread of cheap supermarket booze and a million channels of drivel to watch on TV to stop people having a good reason to go to the pub. [/quote] I'd go to the bar if it was live music - even if it was rubbish. Just to have a few beers and hear players do their thing is good enough. They get practice, exposure and experience - we get life, effort and passion ...... even if the skills and talent aren't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beedster Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='DavidMcKay' timestamp='1453491715' post='2960075'] I'd go to the bar if it was live music - even if it was rubbish. Just to have a few beers and hear players do their thing is good enough. They get practice, exposure and experience - we get life, effort and passion ...... even if the skills and talent aren't there. [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1453298090' post='2958208'] I wouldn't have thought there was much you can do once the guy has been told how much you go out for in pubs - in his mind there isn't going to be much difference. Fault lies with the guitarist, so make him do it for free and then split the £200 one less way. [/quote] That sounds like a good lesson Frankly, the thought of doing a gig like that where you're stuck hanging around for hours and hours makes me shudder. The guy whose even is may just think about the time you'd be playing without realising that it involves a lot more than that, arriving early, setting up, checking... and being held hostage leaving late. There may be a polite way to educate him as to what the gig would actually involve for you. A pub gig is a lot simpler and easier, hence the lower fee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1453301770' post='2958249'] So the birthday chap has found out your band charge £200 for pubs and wants the same deal? If he only wants to pay your 'pub' price you could give him a pub set. Turn up at 8pm set up, do 2 sets and leave Maybe ask him what he's expecting. If he's wanting more than a pub set then explain the price goes up (and maybe suggest he asks how much a DJ would cost all night) Personally, I don't get involved in that mates rate stuff. I was asked to do a party for someone's mate once and they didn't want to pay anything. I was told there'd be food and drink in it for you. The thought of a buffet and cola all night made my stomach turn. I said I was busy. [/quote] +1 that's another thing... sometimes they will make sure you have food and drinks. They see it as your being invited to the party and that you'll enjoy it. But I can usually do without the food and I'll be driving so... no drinking for me. Some party! But they just may be completely unaware of how it is for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1453489843' post='2960048'] The money figures being bandied about in the thread recently don't bear any resemblance to my experience. [/quote] which money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 keefbaker's hit the nail on the head, I think. If I play the things I want to play, with people I enjoy playing with, I'm happy not to make much - I used to play for a living , but have a decently paid day job these days. But if I'm expected to play music I can't stand/have played to death and put up with drunks/nonsense, it ceases to be fun and I expect to be paid for my trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1453488616' post='2960033'] I presume this is yet another cover band only discussion? [/quote] What else? No one here can write a decent riff! *ducks* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1453494156' post='2960106'] which money? [/quote] Money crops up in at least one post per page of this thread. The whole thread was started on the basis of how much to charge for playing a party and a difference of opinion within the band. Are you trying to get a rise out of me or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1453494580' post='2960114'] What else? No one here can write a decent riff! *ducks* [/quote] You haven't listened to everyone here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1453320874' post='2958482'] I will probably be in a minority of one here but I, and I'm sure my two band mates are the same think about the gig before the money. If it's a party it will probably be a good night so we would be happy with £50 each. We've done loads of party's for friends of friends on the cheap. I've spent 15 years playing in boring clubs where I only did it for the money. Nowadays I'd happily play for a low fee as long as I enjoy it and I see people enjoying themselves to our music. Life is short so I want to play as many good gigs as possible. [/quote] I kind of agree. Our fee is usually a reflection of a balance between hassle/fun. The more towards fun a gig is, the less we are willing to charge. As a result we do play a few free gigs and we never play *just* for the money... but do charge as a compensation for our inconvenience at the very least. A birthday gig like the OP's could be fun and we could do it for £200 easily. But some of those parties are not that much fun. At least not to everybody in the band. And do you always know in advance what kind of gig it's going to be? Best to charge first, and you can always say when it comes to collect the money "you know what? we had so much fun, let's call make a discount". That way you look even better. There's no way you can play for a small fee and at the end of the night say "you know what? we're bored, tired and hungry... we decided we need to be paid extra" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1453494936' post='2960122'] Money crops up in at least one post per page of this thread. The whole thread was started on the basis of how much to charge for playing a party and a difference of opinion within the band. Are you trying to get a rise out of me or something? [/quote] No, I just wondered what money you were thinking about? Money always comes into it...and I believe it always should, but it will anyway simply because it is there in the equation. I don't much mind, myself, if people don't want it.... but almost everyone I know and play will factor it in somewhere. I'm also of the opinion that if a band doesn't generate money, they are doing something wrong...outside of charities and good causes etc... Is there a degree of competition in it..I don't doubt that either I don't know many musicians who don't have ego either... whether they wear it openly of heavily disguise but I suspect it is there somewhere. Just for the record...and Beedster is from the same neck of the woods, pubs will pay £350 for the right band. They wont offer it everywhere, to everyone, of course, but I've known in the last few years bands get over £1000 in a pub round here. Those pubs had to charge door price though and it is probably (hopefully) the way the better music pubs will go. Of course, only a few pubs could do that.... but it is also the reason why I'd like pubs to be so much more professional about their music...and why I don't see the value of undercutting the general pay rates of the local scene.. And this is not just me either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 What if the band uses music stands, charge more or not at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1453499583' post='2960179'] What if the band uses music stands, charge more or not at all? [/quote] Depends what they use 'em for, maybe, and their aesthetics..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453499953' post='2960182'] [/quote] Just LOVE that photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1453476745' post='2959852'] I can see your point but I think that the issue is that in a very competitive live music scene, some very amateurish bands play for free or next to nothing and undercut much better bands that expect to be paid the going rate. All of this is against a background of pubs struggling to keep afloat and fewer opportunities for new bands. As a result, punters get a poor experience and don't come again, possibly being put off the idea of watching live music and landlords stop putting bands on and go around telling other landlords that live music is a waste of time. However, pubs that do their homework and book the right bands for the going rate still seem to be reasonable busy. But the market is being undermined by rubbish bands and naive landlords...! [/quote] I side with Pete. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1453495578' post='2960131'] I kind of agree. Our fee is usually a reflection of a balance between hassle/fun. The more towards fun a gig is, the less we are willing to charge. As a result we do play a few free gigs and we never play *just* for the money... but do charge as a compensation for our inconvenience at the very least. A birthday gig like the OP's could be fun and we could do it for £200 easily. But some of those parties are not that much fun. At least not to everybody in the band. And do you always know in advance what kind of gig it's going to be? Best to charge first, and you can always say when it comes to collect the money "you know what? we had so much fun, let's call make a discount". That way you look even better. There's no way you can play for a small fee and at the end of the night say "you know what? we're bored, tired and hungry... we decided we need to be paid extra" [/quote] My band does a few private parties every year. We have a separate and higher fee for doing private parties. Most good private events already have a budget for the band and it's always way more than what bars pay. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) [quote name='lurksalot' timestamp='1453491674' post='2960074'] Blue I have to ask a question , you are banging on about doing these bar gigs as a business , paying for your living , you claim to be doing around 75 bar gigs a year, paying $400- $500 a time and the occasional festival . If we average that at $450 That strikes me that your share is $112.50 a gig at 75 gigs makes $8,400 , if we include another $1,000 for the odd festival or 3 , gives earnings of $9,400 that is of course before expenses , travelling costs , fuel , strings etc I may be well wide of the mark, but you seem to have freely offered up the info I have picked this up from and it thus seems to gives you an approximate income when worked out in sterling of £6,580 . Tell me I have missed something here , because it just doesn't seem right that you can live on this as your only source of income, sorry if I have misconstrued anything in my thoughts [/quote] I think all the info you have on me is correct.Cool that you actually read my threads, thanks. I am not sure what the fest and fair income actually comes out to. However I know I had at least 2 $600.00 weekends last summer. The only thing you missed is I do collect a small pension, so when I say "this is how I make my living" is a little shady. I use it and will continue to say "this is how I make a living to make a point" The other thing is my mortgage is paid, kids have graduated from university, I don't use credit cards or carry a car note. I live pretty simple, not many expenses. As a mater of fact I just got a quote that will save me $250.00 a year on car and condo insurance. Blue Edited January 23, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1453481737' post='2959946'] Not all 'free' (or 'low cost'...) bands are rubbish. Just sayin' (... and I've seen my share of rubbish 'pro' bands in my day, too. Not the majority, but they're out there, or they occasionally were when I was attending gigs...) [/quote] Agreed Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1453493666' post='2960098'] +1 that's another thing... sometimes they will make sure you have food and drinks. They see it as your being invited to the party and that you'll enjoy it. But I can usually do without the food and I'll be driving so... no drinking for me. Some party! But they just may be completely unaware of how it is for you. [/quote] Me, I don't drink ( not for the last 45 years ) and I'm really not into eating food at gigs. I'm am "the help" and not there to party. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1453446589' post='2959519'] How much does the nice lady earn? [/quote] Not much, but none of us do at the end of the day. She is a very involved spouse of a band member. She's very professional and were lucky to add this level of professionalism to our band. Blue Edited January 23, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopsdabassist Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Blue? Whats a car note, and why don't you carry one? Sorry, just a bit confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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