EBS_freak Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Is the humour going over your head? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Oh no please do not let this thread nose dive after this many pages guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 He should rise above it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmayhem Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 The only bass players that "need" high volume wall of sound are the "garage warriors". On stage nowadays - as long as you have massive PA support and good monitors - it is totally unnecessary, more or less eyes delight. You aren't allowed to crank the amp to get "your tone" anyway. We have a very fine concert hall in town; next time I play there I'll only bring my tuner, my bass(es), my wireless, my compressor and my Avalon U5... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Indeed - much my preferred method. Although many of the garage warriors don't have access to a decent PA when they play down the Tickled Trout. Knowing what I know now, investing in decent PA is where the greatest gains can be achieved for a band. Although, as stated back in the thread, nobody really seems to want to invest in PA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 But how would I get "my sound" that my £300 combo makes out of a £20'000 pa?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmayhem Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1454776643' post='2972930'] Indeed - much my preferred method. Although many of the garage warriors don't have access to a decent PA when they play down the Tickled Trout. Knowing what I know now, investing in decent PA is where the greatest gains can be achieved for a band. Although, as stated back in the thread, nobody really seems to want to invest in PA. [/quote] I have thoughts of getting this by myself and let the band rent it every gig: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgNHS-pBu0Y"]http://www.youtube....h?v=YgNHS-pBu0Y[/url] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keUtck_F7es"]http://www.youtube....h?v=keUtck_F7es[/url] Edited February 6, 2016 by bassmayhem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1454089471' post='2966395'] Yep... but I'd probably be glad about it as well...tbh. If I quote a price and someone comes back way off that price... then you walk away, surely. There will always be someone cheaper anyway... so to me, it is the same thing. As for gear at an event, I'd bill for that. There is minimum spec and I get the point about gear that has had a hard life, but this is all about having dealings with people who are on the same page, IMO...and what is required/desired on the gig As it happens, I'm looking for some high quality monitors..and by that I mean better than QSC.. so Martin, Turbosound or DB etc and I'll use them for vox out front or stage monitors I'll either hire them to the band or I'll sub them to a P.A company as there are never enough quality monitors to go around,I've found, and the local venue can't afford to have more than 6 of them. I'd sub to them when a touring act comes through because their riders always specify DB model or Equivalent.. [/quote] I've got to ask, are you talking about d&b audioteknik, or dB Technologies, because there's two different worlds there. dB is decent-for-the-price kit, no doubt about it. d&b is a different world, being one of the top live audio brands in the world and on most high end touring riders. To buy a d&b monitor setup (even just for a four way band mix) would set you back about the price of a brand new family car and require specific dedicated amps with onboard processing. I'm lucky enough to get to play with this stuff on some of the gigs I work on, but I'd never be self indulgent or financially irresponsible enough to spec a pile of M4s and a rack of D6 for a pub band. You talk a good fight mate, but that's just ridiculous. More power to you if you want to spend five figure sums on stage monitoring for pub gigs and the odd private function, but you must have more money than sense. [quote name='DiMarco' timestamp='1454107994' post='2966651'] Short answer to "Could you turn your backline down a bit?" is NO. Band runs the show, not the soundguy. He will not get sub lows coming off the stage. We can haz shelving EQ cutting off any subs from the bass stack on stage. Why do we need a 250w all valve head? Because we can and it sounds dope. Next. [/quote] As for you, you're just a wally. The band doesn't run the show. The sound guy doesn't run the show. We're on the same damn team. You want a great gig that sounds as good as possible. Believe it or not, so does your sound guy. I like to do a good job. It means my phone keeps ringing so I can afford to pay the bills and feed my kids. Near enough every sound engineer I know loves their work, takes pride in it, and feels lucky to be able to make a living out of something they enjoy. When we ask you to turn your backline down, it's not because we like screwing with you, are on a power trip, or just don't like bass players. It's because the massive low end off your amp that you aren't hearing because it hasn't developed by the time it hits the back of your knees is swamping the mix in the house, or the massive mid-range energy you're belting out at high volume is destroying any hope of us getting any real clarity in the crucial bit of the frequency spectrum where bass, guitar, vocals and keys are all fighting for sonic space to be heard. We want you to sound great. That's easier if you work with us. Lots of us are musicians too, we get it. I'd love every gig to be sonically perfect on stage and in the audience, but when it's me with a bass round my neck, I'd sure as hell rather compromise on my own on-stage mix to benefit what the audience get to hear, because without them, there's no gig. This us-vs-them attitude I see on here all the time is bollocks. I don't see it in the real world when I'm out as a tech or as a musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 [quote name='mike257' timestamp='1454786332' post='2973020'] I've got to ask, are you talking about d&b audioteknik, or dB Technologies, because there's two different worlds there. dB is decent-for-the-price kit, no doubt about it. d&b is a different world, being one of the top live audio brands in the world and on most high end touring riders. To buy a d&b monitor setup (even just for a four way band mix) would set you back about the price of a brand new family car and require specific dedicated amps with onboard processing. I'm lucky enough to get to play with this stuff on some of the gigs I work on, but I'd never be self indulgent or financially irresponsible enough to spec a pile of M4s and a rack of D6 for a pub band. You talk a good fight mate, but that's just ridiculous. More power to you if you want to spend five figure sums on stage monitoring for pub gigs and the odd private function, but you must have more money than sense. ............................ [/quote] All joking aside, go and read my posts and find out where I mentioned pubs gigs for this gear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 No EBS_freak, I'm PMSL at it. Best thread of the year and it's only February. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 JTUK - why don't you just answer mike257s question? All this speaking in riddles you like to indulge in, is just unhelpful. You're right off the runway now. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1454787304' post='2973036'] All joking aside, go and read my posts and find out where I mentioned pubs gigs for this gear... [/quote] You rarely give a straight answer to a question mate, unless you're dispensing your no doubt hard-earned wisdom on something. You never said "I'm going to buy d&b wedges to play down the Dog & Duck", but you've posted plenty on here over the years about the kind of gigs you play. You're apparently very discerning about what you'll take, so it's good pub gigs no doubt, but it's still pub and function world that you're operating in, from what I can gather, just like lots of us on here. You have been asked by a couple of posters in this thread to show some links to your band but you're nowhere near as forthcoming with that as you are with your definitive advice about how things should be done. I'm not pretending to be daddy big balls here, my gig today was putting a pair of JBL Eons on sticks for a poetry recital in a library, that kind of thing very much puts you in your place! Yesterday I took a booking for a festival where I'll be looking after an audio crew throwing up a couple of big hangs of d&b J series for 40,000 people to watch Primal Scream, but that's (sadly) not my typical everyday job. My average gig is probably somewhere in the lower middle of those two extremes. I've done some Academy level touring as a musician for a brief period but all my gigging is in wedding/corporate world now, so I'm not pretending to be a rock star or saying I know it all. My point is that I'm happy to contextualise my input by relating it to my real world experience so people can see where I'm coming from and listen to/ignore what I'm saying as they see fit based on that. If you're buying a d&b monitor rig with a view to hiring it out, I'd do some due dilligence on how much of a sound investment that is. Lots of PA hire companies stock it and can afford to be competitive. They'll also have established relationships with other suppliers for cross-hires to augment their inventory. A man with a decent function level FOH setup and one eighth of an arena-level monitor rig isn't likely to figure on their radar unless you've got a strong personal relationship with somebody there, and even then you're depending on them having a very specific requirement that matches the kit that you're carrying. Don't expect to make your dough back in a hurry like that. There's certainly wiser ways of investing that kind of cash if being a one-man hire operation is your game. If you're buying it for personal use, then good luck to you, enjoy it. It's a bit like the audio equivalent of the mid-life crisis sports car though. Way way way overkill unless you're in LARGE professional venues, where that kind of thing will likely be well taken care of before you're anywhere near the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Mike states what we all have been thinking. I was kinda hoping that we would find out what desk is being used. I so hope it's an iLive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) No, he's getting a Heritage 3000 in to sub to the occasional touring band and use down at the Cock & Bull on the nights it's not hired out. Edited February 6, 2016 by mike257 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 [quote name='mike257' timestamp='1454795171' post='2973133'] No, he's getting a Heritage 3000 in to sub to the occasional touring band and use down at the Cock & Bull on the nights it's not hired out. [/quote] Ok so that's the monitors sorted, what about foh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 (edited) [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1454795478' post='2973140'] Ok so that's the monitors sorted, what about foh? [/quote] This. Because apparently you can do whatever the hell you want with your stage levels, regardless of how it affects FOH, so there's no point bringing anything decent. Edited February 6, 2016 by mike257 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 [quote name='mike257' timestamp='1454795882' post='2973142'] This. [IMG]http://www.gitarcentrum.hu/image/cache/catalog/mx5_3763_1359015184-300x300.jpg[/IMG] Because apparently you can do whatever the hell you want with your stage levels, regardless of how it affects FOH, so there's no point brining anything decent. [/quote] At last. Some sensible talk in this thread. Right. What about the lighting rig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1454796294' post='2973144'] At last. Some sensible talk in this thread. Right. What about the lighting rig? [/quote] Nothing less than a full Kanye will do. [IMG]http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/40f9cba349989a39e28ab7ae54035758ccc2e4d8/c=220-0-2880-2000&r=x408&c=540x405/local/-/media/2015/09/28/Phoenix/Phoenix/635790435636337010-KanyeWest-melissafossum-3.jpg[/IMG] The landlord's eleccy bill goes through the roof, but if they don't want to pay for a proper show then we'll just take it elsewhere. Got standards to maintain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Hehe. You bad people. Funny. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 [quote name='mike257' timestamp='1454796504' post='2973147'] Nothing less than a full Kanye will do. [IMG]http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/40f9cba349989a39e28ab7ae54035758ccc2e4d8/c=220-0-2880-2000&r=x408&c=540x405/local/-/media/2015/09/28/Phoenix/Phoenix/635790435636337010-KanyeWest-melissafossum-3.jpg[/IMG] The landlord's eleccy bill goes through the roof, but if they don't want to pay for a proper show then we'll just take it elsewhere. Got standards to maintain. [/quote] This photo isn't Glastonbury as you might think,it was actually taken on his critically acclaimed 'Kanye smashes the tickled trout world tour 2011', he's actually saying "where the f*** are my six DB monitors!?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1454835131' post='2973281'] This photo isn't Glastonbury as you might think,it was actually taken on his critically acclaimed 'Kanye smashes the tickled trout world tour 2011', he's actually saying "where the f*** are my six DB monitors!?". [/quote] DB/d&b - have we established which yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Here's a bargain if anyone is expecting JT's Allstars along and needs d&b monitors. Six wedges, cases and amps, second hand. The price? A mere 27,000 euros. [url="http://www.solarisnetwork.com/used/max15-package/40978"]http://www.solarisnetwork.com/used/max15-package/40978[/url] Is that what you're ringing venues up and requesting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1454837692' post='2973294'] DB/d&b - have we established which yet? [/quote] Well we've been asking for ten pages so far...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Uh oh: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/278559-do-protouring-players-hire-back-line/page__pid__2973259#entry2973259 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) [quote name='mike257' timestamp='1454791604' post='2973097'] You rarely give a straight answer to a question mate, unless you're dispensing your no doubt hard-earned wisdom on something. You never said "I'm going to buy d&b wedges to play down the Dog & Duck", but you've posted plenty on here over the years about the kind of gigs you play. You're apparently very discerning about what you'll take, so it's good pub gigs no doubt, but it's still pub and function world that you're operating in, from what I can gather, just like lots of us on here. You have been asked by a couple of posters in this thread to show some links to your band but you're nowhere near as forthcoming with that as you are with your definitive advice about how things should be done. I'm not pretending to be daddy big balls here, my gig today was putting a pair of JBL Eons on sticks for a poetry recital in a library, that kind of thing very much puts you in your place! Yesterday I took a booking for a festival where I'll be looking after an audio crew throwing up a couple of big hangs of d&b J series for 40,000 people to watch Primal Scream, but that's (sadly) not my typical everyday job. My average gig is probably somewhere in the lower middle of those two extremes. I've done some Academy level touring as a musician for a brief period but all my gigging is in wedding/corporate world now, so I'm not pretending to be a rock star or saying I know it all. My point is that I'm happy to contextualise my input by relating it to my real world experience so people can see where I'm coming from and listen to/ignore what I'm saying as they see fit based on that. If you're buying a d&b monitor rig with a view to hiring it out, I'd do some due dilligence on how much of a sound investment that is. Lots of PA hire companies stock it and can afford to be competitive. They'll also have established relationships with other suppliers for cross-hires to augment their inventory. A man with a decent function level FOH setup and one eighth of an arena-level monitor rig isn't likely to figure on their radar unless you've got a strong personal relationship with somebody there, and even then you're depending on them having a very specific requirement that matches the kit that you're carrying. Don't expect to make your dough back in a hurry like that. There's certainly wiser ways of investing that kind of cash if being a one-man hire operation is your game. If you're buying it for personal use, then good luck to you, enjoy it. It's a bit like the audio equivalent of the mid-life crisis sports car though. Way way way overkill unless you're in LARGE professional venues, where that kind of thing will likely be well taken care of before you're anywhere near the place. [/quote] I do know a few people who could use it and I'd consider it. I don't see the need to publicise bands here, never have done. Nor the people I play with. I'll talk generally from experience in a thread but I don't see the need to more specific. People can believe what I post or they don't... but since I don't know most of them from Adam, I don't really have a position on that one way or another. Edited February 7, 2016 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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