danbanbass Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Just seen and played a 1966 Fender Precision Bass which I liked however its not completely original. Its been refinished which is a great job and re-reliced but the pots, knobs and wiring have been replaced. It does however have the original ashtray covers and hardcase. How much should one pay for these and what else should I look out for? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I've owned quite a few 66 P Basses, from mint to players. I'm no authority on them but could have a pop at what it'd be worth to me. The way the market is prices can vary dramatically. Does it have original pickup, pickguard, bridge and tuners? Is the logo original? Has the neck been over sprayed with lacquer? Are there dates on the neck and pickup? What's the asking price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbanbass Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hi Chiliwailer, Logo and neck is original, did see a tiny piece of laquer wear on fretboard under E - String (Rosewood board) so not sure if they were laquered in this period? Necks dated, no date on pickup so not sure if original? Pickguard, bridge and tuners are original? Asking price is £2500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Shouldn't be any lacquer on the fingerboard itself, sounds odd. The pickup being original or not is a big deal for me, there should be a hand written date written on a grey backed pickup. In rare circumstances they'll still have the old black bottom pickups, but as said, that is pretty rare from what I've seen. If it's black bottomed the ends of the pole pieces should be bevelled. Two years ago I sold a gorgeous 1966 P Bass here on basschat (actually, I've sold 3 1966 P's on here!), it was all original in nicely reliced sunburst but had an original 1963 pickup in it which had been rewound. I'm pretty sure that went for £2400. I sold a mint condition 1966 P Bass on here as well for a bargain £3500, it was worth more, but it wasn't selling and I'd bought it cheap anyway. (It ended up in Denmark St after I sold it where it was overpriced and didn't sell). So to me it makes yours look pricey at £2500. Especially if the pickup isn't right, that's a huge issue for me at that money. I'll state the obvious, collectiors prices for original ones have forced up the prices of the non original ones. But the one you're buying is in my opinion a lot of money for old wood. Sure, old wood feels great and that's worth something in terms of mojo, but it's still a lot to spend. If the pickup was original and you absolutely love it then you need to decide just how much it's worth to you to play for a players 66 P Bass....that's what it's worth IMO. Plus, you need to be sure it is an original body, harder to do when its refined. Like I said, I'm no expert so take all advice with a pinch of salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebo1 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Echo everything Chili has said here. A mint (and it looks barely ever played) 66' is available here for £5950. I know David and he's a stand up guy, and there's probably a bit of wiggle room on price. It really is an investment quality piece. [url="http://www.davidjpym.com/page292.html"]http://www.davidjpym.com/page292.html[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Good advice from the Chilmiester I agree that it is overpriced, although I guess it depends just how good it feels to play. If I found a 66 P that was a refin but sympathetically done, I could live with it, so long as everything else was good and most importantly it played well. I would probably be willing to pay about half the price of an all original example, so nearer to £2,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 [quote name='Jebo1' timestamp='1454175577' post='2967293'] Echo everything Chili has said here. A mint (and it looks barely ever played) 66' is available here for £5950. I know David and he's a stand up guy, and there's probably a bit of wiggle room on price. It really is an investment quality piece. [url="http://www.davidjpym.com/page292.html"]http://www.davidjpym.com/page292.html[/url] [/quote] Wow, that is a fine example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 [quote name='Jebo1' timestamp='1454175577' post='2967293'] Echo everything Chili has said here. A mint (and it looks barely ever played) 66' is available here for £5950. I know David and he's a stand up guy, and there's probably a bit of wiggle room on price. It really is an investment quality piece. [url="http://www.davidjpym.com/page292.html"]http://www.davidjpym.com/page292.html[/url] [/quote] Blooming heck, I had to check pictures of my old one as they look so similar. Gorgeous! Oh, the ones that got away..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebo1 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Yeah, that one was brought in from the States. He had a mint (i.e. never touched) 64' which went to a museum I think. I bought a very well priced 63' from Dave, and it's just a lovely instrument, well set up and light as a feather. If I was buying a vintage guitar I'd normally stay away from refins, because it's easier to hide defects and changes that have been made etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbanbass Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Thanks for the info guy, it's the one on the bass direct site with all the detailed pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 [quote name='Jebo1' timestamp='1454176639' post='2967309'] If I was buying a vintage guitar I'd normally stay away from refins, because it's easier to hide defects and changes that have been made etc. [/quote] Reminds me of another 66 P I owned in the mid 2000's, had been routed under the pickguard from the cavity to the horn, and most likely done with s screwdriver! Sounded lovely though It's the one that got stolen and returned to Noah and the Whale. [quote name='danbanbass' timestamp='1454176839' post='2967312'] Thanks for the info guy, it's the one on the bass direct site with all the detailed pics. [/quote] I like that shop. It's a heavier one for a 66, the 4 I've had have been around 8 - 8.5 lbs. That doesn't mean it's not original though of course. Pickup looks like it's probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbanbass Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Ah fair enough, don't get me wrong it was a lovely playing and sounding thing just wasn't sure about the price tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebo1 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 It looks nice, but I'd stay away from something that has had that many changes, unless of course it plays incredibly and you're not worried about the resale value, or purchasing it an investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 It's like classic cars. I'm more of a modern guy anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierreganseman Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 a "proper" one now being 5K and upwards... I'd say its a fair alternative.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebo1 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 (edited) Yes, i understand your point, and I think some of these values are quite incredible. £80,000 for a mass produced guitar is a little silly, and the market has fallen for a lot of guitars. If you look as a whole at the figures, guitars increase steadily in value, circa 5% a year, which is unspectacular. I think that there are enough people who still want to own these iconic old guitars and originality is what makes them valuable. Personally, from having upwards of 15 guitars of various vintages (I used to import them) I made do with just one that I love, and still love to this day - a 1966 jazz bass. I recently spend about £4K on a 63' Precision but that's because it's an iconic guitar that plays incredibly well, so I'm happy to drop that. I'd spend that on a Wal for instance (although they were selling for around £1200 when I last bought one). A typical collector of course may not even want to play the guitars, which is awfully sad. I did actually you with investing in guitars in addition to other savings and things I have, but judged it wasn't worth it because of the risks you identify. Edited January 30, 2016 by Jebo1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebo1 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Actually, I considered my collection and it's a good selection I'm happy with. I've got. 66 jazz, 63 precision, 74 Strat and a 74 Tele Deluxe. I also have a Simon & Patrick acoustic and a 60s double bass. Fairly modest by some standards, but one of every model suits me. My next investment is likely to be a cheap Fender I can take out and a fretless bass of some sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebo1 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 The value of vintage guitars to you and I is in the authenticity, celebrity owned ones transcend this of course. Although I'd always caution those investing in anything like that; there's no market for Rolf Harris paintings anymore...! Fenders are iconic instruments, as are the Gibsons, but when you hear someone like Keith Richards has a collection of over 3,000 (yet readily admits he uses only a handful regularly) there as an awful lot of them out there. The body shapes are, to my mind, perfect for me (guitar and bass) and I can't see myself changing. So I could spend £4,000 on a guitar but if I use it and play it until I die, well, that's not a bad investment. Just hope the audience agrees. I never really got the 'players' and 'collectors' thing, to my mind there's no point in owning something that doesn't get used. Vintage string instruments have to be used of course or (some experts claim) they degrade on quality. Who knows whether that's true or not? But at least we get to enjoy the quality of these instruments through their playing. As with most things, vintage guitars have been well satirised in Spinal Tap. We'll have to wait and see what happens, let's hope the necks aren't all warped on these old Fenders by then, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Re the 66, for me buying a vintage instrument is all about the originality, as well as the age, with so many changes it`s not really vintage so to speak, so I wouldn`t be looking to shell out quite so much on it. Resell value is likely to be questionable, as is buying as an investment. If however it`s for neither, and it just plays and sounds amazing, well it`s the same price range as Custom Shop instruments, so at that point the price doesn`t seem bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebo1 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 (edited) I understand your point completely completely, but there is one question that's really hard to answer - are these instruments generally the best there is (or up there with similar priced modern instruments) or do we assume they are because of the power that 60s and 70s culture - and those that make it - still wield over us? Is the value in the instrument or merely in what it represents? If it's the former, then the value of these instruments will continue to rise as people always want the best they can, and the 'best' would therefore be the most original, hence their value. If it's the latter, then I can see them becoming less desirable. Interestingly enough, you'd assume the vintage market is the preserve of the middle aged man, but in my experience it's not. I started importing guitars when I was in my 20s, and after having hundreds consider the older ones genuinely to be the best I've played. When I use to sell, it was often to people who weren't collectors as such, but wanted a vintage passive Fender to sit alongside modern guitars as it offered something they didn't feel they could get with a modern guitar. Often younger men (never women, but that could just be coincidence) wanted an older guitar as they respected the past and wanted to try some 'broken in' basses. The most desirable ones were often the most beat up ones... Edited January 31, 2016 by Jebo1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LayDownThaFunk Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 A Precision from 50 years ago sounds like a Precision made today. This is a lot like expensive wine where people judge with their eyes... don't give me all that aged wood density crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebo1 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 To you it does. They don't feel the same though, do they :-) I've recorded and played live with guitars of all ages (I'll never use a Warwick ever again as it let me down once at the Albert Hall), and they don't all sound the same, and they certainly don't all play the same. I'm not trying to justify the seemingly inflated values of the vintage guitar market. I'm merely pointing out that these vintage instruments are priced at the same level as modern day hand made guitars. 6 strings are mental prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 The debate that never gets resolved and refuses to die.... Thanks heavens I didn't spend £200k+ on a 59 LP back in 2007. Mental prices indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebo1 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I wonder if anyone really did? City boys probably... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Both my basses are 42 years old, and have been re-fretted, and have had other minor repairs along the way. Doesn't bother me at all, as they are both working and gigging instruments. Didn't buy them to leave them under the bed! One needed a bit of work to bring it back to full health as it had lay unused for quite some time - but was well played in it's lifetime. Personally - I can't speak for the older Fenders - but a vintage Rickenbacker does both feel, and sound different to a new one. Pickups, construction...but it's all down to personal choice. Great to have the option! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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