Roli Seaboard players

[xgsjx]

Wanted to see if there's any of you that have got a Seaboard & what you think of it.

I'm considering getting a Rise 25 & was impressed when I had a play about on it, but as this will be my only set of keys, I'm reluctant to pull the trigger.

I'm wanting something to use with Logic Pro X as a controller & I know I have to look at the Seaboard as an instrument first & trying to compare it to a keyboard is like trying to compare bass with cello.
As I already have bass & guitar for recording, I think it could be a good option.

All opinions are welcome.

[RhysP]

It's a fascinating bit of kit, but personally I wouldn't want one as my only 'keyboard', same as I loved my Chapman Stick but it would never have replaced my basses or guitars.

[charic]

Had a play on one and found it really hard to play. My fingers kept sticking to the keys. So unless the previous person has particularly sticky hands I don't think it's for me unfortunately.

Shame as I could have used it as a controller for my Kronos

[xgsjx]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1454335040' post='2968653']
Had a play on one and found it really hard to play. My fingers kept sticking to the keys. So unless the previous person has particularly sticky hands I don't think it's for me unfortunately.

Shame as I could have used it as a controller for my Kronos
[/quote]
I know what your problem was... Trying to play it like a keyboard. You need a really light touch. I had no probs playing it, just takes a little time to get used to (that's been my 3rd shot on it & the first time I felt it was sticky, but the following 2, I found it fun).

[charic]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1454335695' post='2968661']
I know what your problem was... Trying to play it like a keyboard. You need a really light touch. I had no probs playing it, just takes a little time to get used to (that's been my 3rd shot on it & the first time I felt it was sticky, but the following 2, I found it fun).
[/quote]

Possibly actually! But I really didn't like the material

[lowdown]

I have a Roli 25.
I hate it for serious Keyboard playing, and don't use it for that (simple synth lines and Percussion yes), but.........
for CC#'S (aftertouch, modulation, key switching, vibrato, articulations and dynamics etc), especially on the more in depth Orchestral Libraries,
it's absolutely fantastic.

It's own software Instrument is very hit and miss, (well for me, buggy. But I suppose that will change).
You need to make sure that your software synths are compatible to get the full effect.
I found it works great with Kontakt and Omnisphere 2.

(Running it in Cubase 8.5 - If DAW makes any difference).

[xgsjx]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1454342608' post='2968733']
I have a Roli 25.
I hate it for serious Keyboard playing, and don't use it for that (simple synth lines and Percussion yes), but.........
for CC#'S (aftertouch, modulation, key switching, vibrato, articulations and dynamics etc), especially on the more in depth Orchestral Libraries,
it's absolutely fantastic.

It's own software Instrument is very hit and miss, (well for me, buggy. But I suppose that will change).
You need to make sure that your software synths are compatible to get the full effect.
I found it works great with Kontakt and Omnisphere 2.

(Running it in Cubase 8.5 - If DAW makes any difference).
[/quote]
Cheers.

Do you think I'd maybe be wiser to get an actual keyboard (looking at the Akai Advance or NI S61/88) & then getting the Rise at a later date?
I know that if I had a keyboard, I'd be playing piano & synth quite a lot. With the Rise, I know that I'm gonna have to look at it for what it is, an instrument that's not a keyboard, but can control many of my VSTs.

[Woodinblack]

There is a iPad / iPhone Rise app, if you want to play around to see if the positioning is good for you

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1454349533' post='2968858']
There is a iPad / iPhone Rise app, if you want to play around to see if the positioning is good for you
[/quote]
That's Noise. I got that last week. Good for messing about.

[Mornats]

I had a play on the Roli 25 for about 5 mins just before Christmas. So, whilst hardly qualified to say for sure I did get the impression that I'd be better off with a standard style keyboard for the versatility it would offer. However, I can totally understand lowdown when he says it would work well with strings and orchestral music. I did notice that the feel of the Roli 25 rubber was quite different to the Roli 88 (or whatever the full size one is called).

Not to burn a hole in your pocket too much but did you see they're bringing out a Roli 49? RRP around a grand I think.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1454350508' post='2968883']
Not to burn a hole in your pocket too much but did you see they're bringing out a Roli 49? RRP around a grand I think.
[/quote]
I saw the 49, but at £949 it's out of my price range.
After hearing your composition, I'm still interested in the NI boards & might be interested in the S88. Decisions eh!

[Mornats]

I know what you mean. It took me months to decide to get my S61 and Komplete bundle. It's quite an outlay!

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1454358812' post='2968990']
I know what you mean. It took me months to decide to get my S61 and Komplete bundle. It's quite an outlay!
[/quote]
how did you find Komplete Select?
If I go for the NI, I'd probably just get the keyboard with the bundle Select & maybe get the cross grade at a later date.

[Mornats]

I'll give you a run down of my thoughts on each of the instruments:

[b]Massive[/b]
I originally wanted Komplete 10 for Absynth as I love the dreamy atmospheric textures it produces. However Massive has very quickly become my favourite synth. It's massively versatile and can do thumping evolving beats, low down pads rhythms, deep bass, leads, sound effects etc. etc. and so much more. I even bought some cinematic presets for it from ADSR Sounds. I'm going to go through some tutorials on how to make your own sounds as I can see it in a lot of music I do. Komplete Select is worth it just for this (even though it comes free with the keyboard). If I hadn't have gone for the crossgrade this would have made me very happy with just going for the keyboard only.

[b]Reaktor Prism[/b]
Tinkly bell noises are what I tend to grab from this. It can a lot of those nice atmospheric soundscapes that I liked from Absynth. High-range chimey sounds come naturally from it. Between this and Massive you can get a helluva lot of synth sounds covering most ranges other than retro and "normal" synths. Which brings me on to...

[b]Monark[/b]
This is a really sounding "typical" synth. The type your hear pounding in your ears at 3am when you just had to go into that club to continue drinking.

[b]Retro Machines MK2[/b]
70s and 80s sampled synths. I've not ventured into these parts yet but they sound authentic.

[b]The Gentleman[/b]
A lovely grand piano. The piano on "Drops" was it's brother - The Maverick. Being from the same family, anything you liked about The Maverick is in The Gentleman but more refined I'd say, like a true gentleman.

[b]Drumlab[/b]
Fairly typical electronic drum machine. If I wasn't so hooked on EZDrummer I'd be using it from electronic beats but EZDrummer is just so EZ for me that I tend not to stray from it.

[b]Vintage Organs[/b]
Get your funk on. I used this on this track: https://soundcloud.com/mornats/adventure (kicks in around half way through).

[b]West Africa[/b]
Really nice west African percussion. You can play a range of instruments as single shots or it comes with a range of grooves too. Any African-sounding percussion you hear on my recent tracks comes from here.

[b]Scarbee Mark 1[/b]
Electric piano. I've not used this much but it does sound as authentic as an electric piano can sound.

[b]Solid Bus Comp[/b]
Shove it on your mix bus, select the "mix bus" preset and everything just sounds right together. It's so damn nice. I find that I'm only using this or Supercharger on my tracks now.

If I didn't get the crossgrade to Komplete 10 I'd miss the following the most:

[b]Rounds[/b]
This is the synth that comes in on "Drops" at around 52 seconds in. I love the whole concept of this synth and I can see myself using it a lot.

[b]Kontakt[/b]
The included sounds are amazing. The orchestral section sounds better than Miroslav Philharmonik in my opinion. You have a range of expressions that you can play the instruments in. Parts of the keyboard light up showing you which keys select which playing style and another set of keys will swap it over mid note. Also the range of third-party instruments it opens up is immense.

[b]Session Strings and Session Horns[/b]
I owned Session Strings already. You can hear Session Horns on "Adventure!" - that's using the included loops which come in a range of styles and articulations. The animator on Session Strings is just awesome. I've got an up-coming track that features them a lot.

[b]The Giant[/b]
This comes in two modes. The "normal" (not that this can be called a normal piano) mode and a cinematic mode. I used the cinematic mode in that up-coming track I just mentioned. Very versatile as a sound FX machine.

[b]Supercharger[/b]
I owned this already but this is my go-to saturation compressor. Beautiful on vocals. If NI would have let me use a voucher on an upgrade I'd have upgraded to the GT version by now. Might still do it at £44.

[b]Guitar Rig 5 Pro and Rammfire[/b]
I owned these two already. My go-to amp sim, mostly for guitar as the bass amps and cabs strike me as a "we need a guitarist who can play bass" effort. Ampeg SVX is better sounding for bass. The Rammfire plugin is my default set of presets. About halfway through this one: https://soundcloud.com/mornats/burst (in the quiet bit) the guitars start creeping in. Actually, that's Session Strings and its animator on those strings in that one.

You can see with the amount of NI instruments that I owned already that it made sense for me to jump to Komplete 10 before I ended up spending the same amount of money anyway. I don't think I paid full price for any of the instruments I already owned though. Guitar Rig 5 Pro was a half-price upgrade from Guitar Rig Session that I got with an audio interface, Session Strings was half price, as was Rammfire and Supercharger was free one Christmas.

I've not mentioned a lot of the other instruments from Komplete 10 but that's not to say they're not good.
[list]
[*]Kontour is really nice so far but I haven't explored it fully as I get a lot out of the other synths.
[*]Reaktor 5 is a favourite of many but man, it's hugely complicated (and therefore versatile) and I find it a little bewildering sometimes.
[*]Polyplex has a lot of potential as a great drum sampler and I'm going to plug in my Korg Nano 2 soon and have a literal bash with it.
[*]Same with Battery. That's some serious drum-sound-making going on in that bad boy.
[*]FM8 - dude, the 80s are over.
[*]Reaktor Spark - similar to Reaktor Prism I think? I get them mixed up quite a bit. Still sounds great.
[*]Absynth. Lovely soundscape textures. If I can peel myself away from Massive I'll get deep into this someday.
[*]The Gentleman and The Grandeur are both as lovely as The Maverick. A really nice trio of pianos. Trianos if you will.
[*]Studio Drummer/Abbey Road Drummer. These actually sound great. If only I could drop in the midi from EZDrummer I'd find a lot of use for these.
[*]Scarbee MM-bass. This is the wrong forum for recommending a VI bass
[*]The other 2 Scarbee pianos/clavinet things. Not finding a lot of use for these yet.
[*]Driver - had this as a freebee already but it's really good. I reckon it can distort my voice enough for me to record it and stand hearing myself sing/talk.
[*]Solid Dynamics and Solid EQ - I tend to use other dynamics and EQ plugins so not had to chance to fit these in yet. However if they're as good as Solid Bus Comp they're worth it.
[*]Transient Master - not used it yet but sounds useful.
[*]Reflektor - I loved Little Reflektor in Guitar Rig and this is the real deal. Bounce that sound off any virtual wall you like.
[*]Tractor's 12 - interesting bunch of effects. Haven't had a chance to have some fun with these yet.
[*]The Finger. Looks good in theory. Buggered if I can work out how to get it to do anything yet. I need to YouTube some tutorials.
[/list]
I didn't intend to write such an essay! Hope you find it helpful. Also, since I got this I also bought Heavyocity's Vocalise (that up-coming track I keep mentioning makes heavy use of that) and I did quite naughtily splash out on Evolve Mutations 2 as well. Which I like and plan to get the first one too. I know they're cheaper in the bundle but these are the only two things (that I fancy) that I can spend my two £22 vouchers on so it's worth getting them individually as I technically won't lose out on the bundle discount I reckon. I should stop spending money on virtual instruments too, I seem to have enough now

[xgsjx]

Cheers buddy. That gives me a lot to think about & I might just save my pennies.
Still finding it tough to pull away from the Roli, but the more I think about it, the more I can see me getting much more use from an actual set of keys & a handful more VSTis.

[Mornats]

I'm wondering how far away Komplete 11 is. There's a chance they'll do half price upgrades to 10 before it hits. Worth thinking about if you fancied getting the keyboard and doing the crossgrade later. £289 for the crossgrade now so if they do it half price that's £144. Could be worth checking what they did with the crossgrade to 9 when 10 was released.

[Woodinblack]

I tried a rise today in PMT, and was sad that I really hated it. I found it really tiring to play very quickly.
OK, I can see that there are some things it would be great for, but I am thinking more lead lines in the occasional song, so if I was playing one live, it would need to be a separate keyboard for the one I used for everything else.
And for the price, that would be a non starter for me.

[xgsjx]

I'm still being tempted by it. It can be played quickly, just watch some of the videos for it. Chap from Dream Theater is not bad at playing it.

Got another dilemma now... 88 weighted or 61 semi weighted keys if I don't get the rubber thing?
I play a mix of everything.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1455437577' post='2979006']
88 weighted or 61 semi weighted keys if I don't get the rubber thing?
I play a mix of everything.
[/quote]


Get both.
</THREAD>


As I assume you're much aware, it's about prioritizing and about your own technique and in what direction you wish to develop it.
It's very hard to exactly and [b]dynamically[/b] control the dynamics of plucking and hammering sounds like pianos with a semi-weighted.
For people without good technique, it's also hard to do dense pads with quick chord changes on a weighted keyboard if it's a rather heavy one.
Wait! I have great technique, and me too, I find it hard to do this.

However, one solution might be in one of the weighted ones that need very little pressure. IMS Fatar do one or a few. Problem with Fatar is they do so many different keybeds, that it's hard to get an overview of which models use exactly those keybeds.
I remember having been much charmed by the action of an Orla stage piano with such a Fatar keybed, but as this is several years ago, they may use different keybeds these days - even if they're supplied by Fatar.
Also Yamaha do or have done one that was very light on the touch, and which resembled the light Fatar one very much. I'd believe it was a Fatar one, but reportedly, Yamaha almost always do their own keybeds. This may have been the exception, Idunno.

Another solution might be in tracing a shorter, and thus cheaper, weighted one and add a synth bed or a short semi-weighted later. Short fully weighted keybeds are almost as rare as hens' teeth though. Roland did a 64-key one, but it may be unfindable these days.


Just trying to hand you some thoughts.
Sorry that I can't provide a shortlist of keybeds to go and try.

One last remark though: if you're on a tight budget, you can do worse than with a semi-weighted M-Audio KeyStation or KeyStation ES. They come in all lenghts.

Edited February 14, 2016 by BassTractor

[Mornats]

Native Instruments use Fatar keybeds in both the 61 and weighted 88 keyboards but they don't say which ones. Comparing the pics on http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/keyboards/komplete-kontrol-s-series/keybed-details/ to the pics on here http://www.fatar.com/Pages/TP_9S.htm the TP/9S seems the closest match based on looks.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1455448426' post='2979109']
Get both.
</THREAD>


As I assume you're much aware, it's about prioritizing and about your own technique and in what direction you wish to develop it.
It's very hard to exactly and [b]dynamically[/b] control the dynamics of plucking and hammering sounds like pianos with a semi-weighted.
For people without good technique, it's also hard to do dense pads with quick chord changes on a weighted keyboard if it's a rather heavy one.
Wait! I have great technique, and me too, I find it hard to do this.

However, one solution might be in one of the weighted ones that need very little pressure. IMS Fatar do one or a few. Problem with Fatar is they do so many different keybeds, that it's hard to get an overview of which models use exactly those keybeds.
I remember having been much charmed by the action of an Orla stage piano with such a Fatar keybed, but as this is several years ago, they may use different keybeds these days - even if they're supplied by Fatar.
Also Yamaha do or have done one that was very light on the touch, and which resembled the light Fatar one very much. I'd believe it was a Fatar one, but reportedly, Yamaha almost always do their own keybeds. This may have been the exception, Idunno.

Another solution might be in tracing a shorter, and thus cheaper, weighted one and add a synth bed or a short semi-weighted later. Short fully weighted keybeds are almost as rare as hens' teeth though. Roland did a 64-key one, but it may be unfindable these days.


Just trying to hand you some thoughts.
Sorry that I can't provide a shortlist of keybeds to go and try.

One last remark though: if you're on a tight budget, you can do worse than with a semi-weighted M-Audio KeyStation or KeyStation ES. They come in all lenghts.
[/quote]
The advice you've given is really helpful. I'm not really looking for a shortlist, as I'm trying to decide if I should go for the NI S88 or not.
The Akai Advance 61 is top of my list for 61 keys & although space isn't an issue, I'd rather have one keyboard.

For pads, I suppose as it's to be used to control soft synths, I could easily adjust the velocity so notes stay at a more consistent volume.
I used to be a keys player, but stopped many many yonks ago. Over the past few years, I've been playing other folks keys (for fun, not in a band) & it's been a mix of pianos & synths & like the keys on both.
It's trying to decide what I'm gonna get the most use out of.

Edited February 14, 2016 by xgsjx

[xgsjx]

This sort of thing tempts me the other way though...

http://youtu.be/UxSdq7lsPa8

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1455437577' post='2979006']
I'm still being tempted by it. It can be played quickly, just watch some of the videos for it.
[/quote]

Yes, it can be played quickly. Feels like playing a regular keyboard covered in golden syrup, you can do it fast but I found it tiring. Maybe it is because I am not used to it and once you get used to it you get a better technique that doesn't cramp your hand.

There were certainly things you can do on it that are hard with a normal keyboard and a lot cheaper than something like an eigenharp, so as a solo thing I would imagine it will be good.
But I just can't imagine using it as your only keyboard.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1455437577' post='2979006']
Got another dilemma now... 88 weighted or 61 semi weighted keys if I don't get the rubber thing?
I play a mix of everything.
[/quote]

If you are playing at home on piano pieces, nothing beats an 88 key weighed keyboard. If you having to carry it to gigs, then 61 semi weighted all the way!

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1455450642' post='2979136']
This sort of thing tempts me the other way though...

[media]http://youtu.be/UxSdq7lsPa8[/media]
[/quote]

Thats what I meant by the lead thing. One of those as a lead and a normal keyboard for keyboard parts would be great. THe original bit I don't see what that brings that you don't get with a bass.

[xgsjx]

If I go for keys, it's most likely only ever gonna be for home use. If I got the Rise, I'd more than likely take it for a jam as well.