Wonky2 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Im really sorry if this question is a stupid one ..... I went and met with another urb player tonight, an old school guy of a spritley 70 years plus and still giging hard... I went to check out his bass as a measure to my own in regard to set up, how one should feel and sound etc... A reference epoint for me as i have zero db experience untill now. His string set up was just fantastic, like silk to play with low tension and a beautiful tone.... He told me to throw away my E string, shift the A,D and G string over and buy a high C string to replace the G string (giving me a C,G,D,A string setup from 1st to 4th respectivley , but tune them to gdae as normal) Im told this is 5th's tuning but then tuned to 4th's ,so c,g,d,a but then tuned tomstandar tuning of g,d,a,e... Giving a very smooth feel. I could be and am probably completley wrong with that. It felt great, didnt sound thin or floppy, didnt loose any depth or tone....... He said he had done it for iver 40 years and advised i do it too. Im happy to do it as it felt right for me, but i just wondered, is this the norm? A common practice ? Im due to buy some strings soon and wondered if buying them like this seperatly is better or buying a pack plus a high c and just selling the E string on....? Anyone else do this ? Edited February 2, 2016 by Wonky2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairyu Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 That sounds a tad extreme to myself to be honest. That being said, I prefer strings with a slightly higher tension so I can dig in more. I'd suggest maybe getting solo strings (These are tuned F#,B,E,A) and tuning them down a tone to concert pitch. I had this setup on an EUB I got from another BCer and it was like butter to play. It would probably also be easier / cheaper than buying a full set of strings and an extra C. Also, I'm not sure what you intend to get out of playing upright bass, but you might not want to make your tension too low if you plan to ever play at any jams/situations where you're playing a different bass. It could make transitioning very difficult, and I know a lot of guys who have gotten 'owned' playing a bass at a jam session as the tension/action was too high (Myself included!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 So.... That solo set.... Would they be (in general terms) thinner strings than a standard gdae set ? And id be tuning them to gdae still which would give me a looser/ lower tension ? What i do know is that his felt fantastic.... But i guess your theory is similar.... Dont Ever do jam nights, only plan on playing myown bass . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) I've not heard of anyone use this method myself - of course, I'm a relative newcomer anyway So there may be plenty of players out there who do this - I've just not come across any personally The world of DB, and strings is a whole can of worms - there's much more choice than there is with bass guitar Thinner strings doesn't always equate to lower tension, it must be said... When I first got my Eminence EUB, it was strung with really narrow gauge strings - much thinner than any DB strings I'd previously encountered. - But they were quite high tension, and so narrow - I really didn't get on with them I now use Spirocore Weich's - they are steel (with nylon, I think) core. They are lower tension than other steel strings I've come across, and quite nice to play. Innovation make some lovely low tension strings, which are made of a nylon type material. I first used their Silver Slaps They are low tension, but quite chunky. I have to say, I found these much easier to get on with than other strings at that time and they're reasonably priced too. Keep your eye on the DB / EUB for sale section. It may seem a strange concept, for people to be selling second-hand strings But a lot of folk on here swap strings, and decide they don't like them after all. If they haven't been used too much, or swapped to too many basses, you can pick up a decent set of strings for a reasonable cost I think as you're at the beginner stage, I'd stay away from unusual tuning for now - at least until you've found your feet a little more Good luck Marc Edited February 2, 2016 by Marc S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairyu Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 The solo strings that were on my EUB were Evah Pirazzis. The gauge felt the same as the Evahs I had on my main bass at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc S Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 If you're specifically looking for low tension - try Innovation strings You won't be able to bow them though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Thanks guys for the advice... The tuning is standard tuning eadg... The string gauge is only narrower due to them all being shifted to the left, with the e string banjshed and a high c to replace the g. So i wouldnt intend on tuning them to pitch, as in having opens strings tuned adgc, they would all be tuned a tone lower giving me eadg standard tuning will a lighter guage and low tension. This guy is 70 odd years old and claims he has strung his bass this way for a very long time, with a few other players adopting the format after playing his bass.... It didnt feel too slack, didnt present any issues with unintentional pitch bending, no twang against the fret board... Nothing, just a great feel. My bass i can play around ,roots, 3rd's, 5th's, octaves but its hard work and fatigue sets in quickly... On his bass i could real off standard walking bass lines and such with ease..... If id have played his bass and thought it lacked deoth of sound due to this string set up i would have just poo pooed the idea, but honestly, it sounded great.... Ive looked and thomastic spiros are available in a set like this http://www.thomann.de/gb/thomastik_spirocore_quint_tuning_3_4.htm Thise strings are tuned in 5ths, but dropping a tone and Tuning in 4th's gjves you those strings tuned eadg Sorry, dont mean to sound like im disreguarding your advice, far from it.... Maybe its a scenario that you wouldn't consider or belive untill you have tried it ? It was deffinaitley a set up i could easily adapt to and progress well from... And the fact thomastic sell a set like this must mean that ithers used this method ? Any ine else ever used them ? Edited February 2, 2016 by Wonky2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SubsonicSimpleton Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Fifths tuning spiros are tuned lowest to highest C,G,D,A,E, they are not the same as a five string set which would be tuned lowest to highest E,A,D,G,C. The go to solution for modern jazz guys who want to shred with low action is usually spirocore solos(F#BEA) tuned down a tone to regular EADG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljbass Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 The bass lost tone, volume and the string is too loose on right hand with A tuned down to E. I can imagine detuning solo strings (although most of low tension strings will work too), but 5 semitones is too much. I will not go this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) [quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1454434492' post='2969726'] Fifths tuning spiros are tuned lowest to highest C,G,D,A,E, they are not the same as a five string set which would be tuned lowest to highest E,A,D,G,C. The go to solution for modern jazz guys who want to shred with low action is usually spirocore solos(F#BEA) tuned down a tone to regular EADG. [/quote] Ahhh my mistake, i think ive gotten confused seeing the spiro 5ths's set..... I guess his method would be much the same as the spiro solo's f#,b,e,a tuned down a tone....... To try the tension, would this feel similar to me tuning my current eadg set down a tone (not to compare in pitch, just feel) or will the solo set be a lighter guage of string than the eadg set ? If the solo set is actually a thinner guage and then tuned down a tone, this will be more like the set up the old boy had i guess? My god! I new were i was with a set of labella flats for my jazz.! Hahaha Edited February 2, 2016 by Wonky2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Try more basses before you decide. I dont think eub's have much similarity in the way they feel to a double bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 [quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1454440013' post='2969800'] Try more basses before you decide. I dont think eub's have much similarity in the way they feel to a double bass. [/quote] I have the exact same strings on my EUB as my DB and for some reason the EUB is much lighter to play, feels like an electric bass compared to my DB so I agree 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) The practice of tuning (high to low in fourths) C,G,D,A was quite common among jazz bass players around London in the late 50's and 60's. Bass players began experimenting with high C strings when steel strings by Lycon and Thomastic became available. Johnny Hawksworth was one of many players who tried this tuning, it was a fairly short lived fad. Some of the players who liked the high C string also missed the low E, so moved on to five string basses tuned C,G,D,A,E. In more recent times Ron Carter has performed on a 4 string tuned C,G,D,A. Edited February 2, 2016 by anon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Sorry , if i give the impression it was for electic upright bass, its not.... And yes anon, thats pretty much what he said.... Only he down tuned these cgda stings a tone down to gdae..... As i say, i have no real referance and keeponehandloose is right, i should try more basses, but players are few and far between.... I dont think ill get much opprtunity ....... Not locally anyhoo.... Ok, so the general concensus is that this isnt normal practice..... I get that... But i deffinatley liked it.... Thats all i know hahahah... Now im unsure whether to give it a go (probably not given the advice here) or try the spiro set of solo set f#bea and tune them down a tone to eadg ? I just like d the low tension feel i guess.... But can anyone answer... Would the spiro solo set f#bea be a lighter guage or in basic terms a thinner string set than a standard eadg set of strings ? Has anyone else used the sole set ? Edited February 2, 2016 by Wonky2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairyu Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) As I said in my previous post; I don't notice a difference in gauge between my solo strings and my concert strings. If there is a difference in gauge, it's so minuscule that I can't tell. Also, I'm perplexed by you saying the guy's bass you played was (From high to low) CGDA tuned down a tone to GDAE; to tune that set down to GDAE would actually be going down two and a half tones, not one. I would imagine those strings would be flappy as hell and not loud at all. Are you definitely sure this is what he did and not something else that you may have misunderstood? Try tuning your current strings down a tone, that will give you a feel for what solo strings would feel like in orchestral tuning (If you want, try tuning them down an extra tone and a half from there and see the difference; I'm pretty sure for a start you will lose a lot of volume). Edited February 3, 2016 by Kairyu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I know they are not for an eub, my point was that you said you tried some strings on an eub and they were light, I have the same strings, same tension, same scale length on an eub and a db and the eub feels much much lighter and easier to play so the eub you tried doesn't help much imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 This is an almost impossible situation to resolve on the web. So many things affect how the strings feel. Age of strings, angle over the bridge, neck angle, string height - nut and bridge - string afterlengths, soundpost, tailgut etc etc. I would advise you get yourself a new set of Spirocore Weich and just play for a while. If you're still not happy, get it to a good luthier and explain the problem. I think you might be worrying too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I've heard of "bumped" strings (i.e. moved over one position for lower tension, using an ADGC set tuned to EADG) as something that was popular with rockabilly and psychobilly players who wanted to stick with steel strings but have a low-tension setup for slap playing. I haven't come across anyone outside of those styles doing it, and perhaps its not really necessary now that there are so many dedicated slap strings available. This page explains it quite clearly: [url="https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2660-STRINGS_BUMPED_STRING_SETS_FOR_ROCKABILLY.html"]https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2660-STRINGS_BUMPED_STRING_SETS_FOR_ROCKABILLY.html[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1454510022' post='2970353'] I've heard of "bumped" strings (i.e. moved over one position for lower tension, using an ADGC set tuned to EADG) as something that was popular with rockabilly and psychobilly players who wanted to stick with steel strings but have a low-tension setup for slap playing. I haven't come across anyone outside of those styles doing it, and perhaps its not really necessary now that there are so many dedicated slap strings available. This page explains it quite clearly: [url="https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2660-STRINGS_BUMPED_STRING_SETS_FOR_ROCKABILLY.html"]https://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2660-STRINGS_BUMPED_STRING_SETS_FOR_ROCKABILLY.html[/url] [/quote] Thats exactly what it was, and the term bumped set is a good description.... Maybe it is an old school thing, the guy is 70 years old and been at it for many years with this set up. Beer if the bass, im glad youve heard of it and can confirm ive not made this up/ got it wrong / been led and advised by a senile old boy who's lost his marbles ! Hahaha I dont think i said eub anywhere, i may have said "urb" (up right bass) and perhaps with my inexperience used a phrase which isnt the norm .... Also, what i said was ... A solo set f#bea tuned down a tone as an option OR as the old boy has, a set which is shifter over or "bumped" using adgc strings but all tuned down by a 5th to eadg I understand my explaination may have been a little confused but its still , as said above, some things are harder to explain thsn see/ feel or discuss in person and again as said above im probsbly over thinking but these strings are bloody expensive ! I dont want to waste money on something that would be poor right from the off ...... I will either comit and buy as per the old boys set up or buy the solos and tune down a tone. What i dont know is, would the solos tuned down a tone feel pretty much like a standard set of light or weich strings.... I hate this hahaha ...... I do obsess with decision making, more so when i have limited experience with somthing ... Edited February 3, 2016 by Wonky2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Any chance of meeting up again with the ol' fellow and finding out exactly what strings he's using and where he got 'em, or ask him to get you some just like his..? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Are there any tutors local, that may be an opportunity to try another bass, for the cost of a lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonky2 Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 Yeah i could, ive got his number and he was mega enthused to see some new young blood....(with the bass playing that is, not in a creepy old man way. Hahaha) I did ask him.... His reply was as you would expect.... He said he had tried many strings over the years and a few things he insisted on was that firstly, he hardley ever played acoustically, always amplified, so any volume lost by his low action and string tension was unimportant to a degree ( his bass was plenty loud enough compared to mine) he also said he had tried both expensive and cheap e bay Chinese strings for a few quid , again when amplified the differance minimal.....the feel much the same... I asked him if they were med or soft tension, he said mediums.... "Bin your e string, move em across and put a high c string in the gap left where the g was" Im sure that isnt the case and many will be borking at the statement, i wont be buying any ebay cheap'os either..... So hard to say what he had on. It was liud, tension was low but not floppy by any means, sound was warm, feel great. I think ive flogged this one beyond everyones interest so ill leave it at that... I like the low tension so i will go that way.... Solos (f#bea) tuned down a tone seem like the acceptable comprimise. I just wonder if they will fell any liwer than a weich type eadg string set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kairyu Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Anyone here ever have an experience with gut-a-likes? There was a set on the first bass I ever borrowed and I remember that they were much easier to play than standard steel strings (the tension was lower). Dunno if they do a solo set but it might be worth a punt? Much cheaper than spiros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 To put my own mind at rest as much as anything, I've just tuned my bass down a tone (Bel Cantos on it, admittedly) and it felt exactly as I thought it would. Not much easier to play, just as dead as a doornail! No sustain, no volume, no thump, no nothing. For what it's worth! That may be just my bass's reaction to it. I still think you should get a new set of strings and just play for a while... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljbass Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 (edited) Serious case of chordatensiophobia Edited February 4, 2016 by ljbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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