Gottastopbuyinggear Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 A while ago I bought a bunch of Neutrik jacks, a mixture of straight and right angle, some Sommer Tricone cable, and some Klotx AC110, with a view to making up a couple of shortish patch leads, and a lead of about 5 feet to use while I'm playing through Amplitube on my computer. The first one I made sounded a bit strange to me, so I checked it with a multimeter and found there wasn't infinite resistance between the tip and the sleeve. I made up another, and got the same thing. I had another go this morning, and yet again the same thing. It's not massive - I need to set the multimeter to the highest range, and I'm getting a reading of about 0.2Meg Ohm. I've tried all my other cables, including some I made myself a while ago with cheaper jacks, and they're all fine - infinite (according to my multimeter) resistance between the tip and the sleeve. It's driving me mad - what am I doing wrong?! I'm pretty certain it's not my soldering - I've built effects on PCB and veroboard (some recently), and even a valve amp, and never had a single failure, but I can't seem to make a basic patch lead now! I've got a degree in electrical and electronic engineering for heaven's sake! The only thing I can think of is that I'm heating the plug too much and the insulation is breaking down, either in the plug or the cable. I've been using a 30W iron recently, rather than the 15W I usually use, but I've had no problem soldering LEDs, transistors, etc. with that. Any ideas?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I used to make my own cables with Neutrik silent jacks and Van Damme cable. I was happy at first but then I A/B'd them with a cheapy cable of some kind...and the Neutrik equipped cables had noticeably less top end. The difference was akin to the difference between old and new strings. So being a rubbish solderer I got an electrical engineer friend make me a cable and that was exactly the same. So now I leave them well alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 I used to make leads up using Neutrik jacks and I had a devil of a time getting a half solder on the chassis/earth. I too have what I consider pretty good soldering skills, having built amps, effects and repaired boards as an office equipment engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 If you're finding it difficult, maybe you're just at that age. As the saying goes: you can't teach an old dog neutriks. a ha ha ha I'm here all week, folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul h Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gottastopbuyinggear Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Thanks for the warning guys. I was about to buy some jacks and "breath new life" into some old leads. But when you consider this problem added to the cost of jacks and my time, is it worth it? Can anyone shed any light on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) Well, I've got cables made from Neutrik plugs and Van Damme cable about 10 years ago and they're going strong and sound fine. Made cables for mates the same way and they're all fine too. Edited February 7, 2016 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 There was one particular issue of Neutrik jacks that had a poorly designed earth connection that was so solid that you couldn't get it hot enough to take the solder properly. It would draw all the heat into the casing of the plug. I have a couple somewhere. They have black plastic tops. They later went back to the normal earth tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 To the OP; have you checked the Neutriks with a multimeter before soldering ? checked the cables unsoldered ? all clear unsoldered ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 OP, are you stripping back the black conductive plastic screen from the inner core? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 [quote name='obbm' timestamp='1454868692' post='2973753'] OP, are you stripping back the black conductive plastic screen from the inner core? [/quote] Conductive plastic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1454870159' post='2973768'] Conductive plastic? [/quote] It's also described by one cable manufacturer as "semiconductor", which it clearly isn't however it's conductive PVC with carbon particles. If it is not stripped back to clear the centre conductor and touches the jack tip wiring the cable will exhibit the sort of problems that the OP is having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gottastopbuyinggear Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1454865886' post='2973701'] There was one particular issue of Neutrik jacks that had a poorly designed earth connection that was so solid that you couldn't get it hot enough to take the solder properly. It would draw all the heat into the casing of the plug. I have a couple somewhere. They have black plastic tops. They later went back to the normal earth tag. [/quote] The right angle ones have tags for the earth. The straight ones didn't, and it did seem that it took a while to get the solder to take. But I'm getting the same problem with both straight and right angle. [quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1454866083' post='2973705'] To the OP; have you checked the Neutriks with a multimeter before soldering ? checked the cables unsoldered ? all clear unsoldered ? [/quote] Yep, both were okay. [quote name='obbm' timestamp='1454868692' post='2973753'] OP, are you stripping back the black conductive plastic screen from the inner core? [/quote] Aha, I've just seen something on another forum about this. No, is the answer. I've just taken a look and I can see what you mean - there's a black sheath around the white insulator surrounding the signal cable. You're saying that's conductive?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 [quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1454870159' post='2973768'] Conductive plastic? [/quote] Yes, indeed; it's to help out with cable rustle when handling, I think, but should be kept well away from the plug tags by trimming back severely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 [quote name='Gottastopbuyinggear' timestamp='1454870747' post='2973779'] The right angle ones have tags for the earth. The straight ones didn't, and it did seem that it took a while to get the solder to take. But I'm getting the same problem with both straight and right angle. Yep, both were okay. Aha, I've just seen something on another forum about this. No, is the answer. I've just taken a look and I can see what you mean - there's a black sheath around the white insulator surrounding the signal cable. You're saying that's conductive?! [/quote] Yes it is. You need to trim that right back and your problem should be solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1454870757' post='2973780'] Yes, indeed; it's to help out with cable rustle when handling, I think, but should be kept well away from the plug tags by trimming back severely. [/quote] Or maybe it's like a screening between cores. [quote name='obbm' timestamp='1454870713' post='2973777'] It's also described by one cable manufacturer as "semiconductor", which it clearly isn't however it's conductive PVC with carbon particles. If it is not stripped back to clear the centre conductor and touches the jack tip wiring the cable will exhibit the sort of problems that the OP is having. [/quote] Many thanks for this really clear info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gottastopbuyinggear Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 Perhaps this is a case of RTFM then! Thanks Dad and obbm for the answers - I'll give this another go when I get the chance. And, WOT, this thread was definitely worth it for the new tricks joke. I salute you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 +1 to W.O.T.s rapid wit. Makes the rest of us look like Klotz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelfin Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Came across this problem many years ago in Hi Fi with 4 core Audioquest speaker cable when using it in bi-amp configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) If you have the problem soldering to the thick metal outer earth on those neutriks, rub then down with a little sandpaper or wet n dry. They will solder much easier.. Neutrik are the best Jack plugs, switchcraft are a little variable and most others are pants. Deltron used to make great Jacks but they have stopped. Beware of people selling Rean as Neutrik. They are part of the group but are made down to a lower price point. For example Nuetrik Jack sockets are spec'd for 10,000 insertions whereas Rean are only 1000. Edited February 7, 2016 by Chienmortbb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planer Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1454862573' post='2973653'] As the saying goes: you can't teach an old dog neutriks.[/quote] Pure class :-) (and an interesting thread too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1454889040' post='2973991'] If you have the problem soldering to the thick metal outer earth on those neutriks, rub then down with a little sandpaper or wet n dry. They will solder much easier.. [/quote] This. I also find that putting a dab of flux on and tinning the area first helps. Edited February 8, 2016 by pete.young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 [quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1454878597' post='2973897'] +1 to W.O.T.s rapid wit. Makes the rest of us look like Klotz. [/quote] It was pretty Van Damme funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1454920299' post='2974067'] This. I also find that putting a dab of flux on and tinning the area first helps. [/quote] I was not talking about the normal Neutrik jacks, which have a cup for the earth that takes solder very well. This particular type, which I don't think they made for very long and I believe may have been the right angled type, had a solid lump of zinc for the earth connection, which made it very difficult to get a quality joint. It does sound like the conductive plastic shield could be the cause of the problem though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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