And People Wonder Why Guitar Shops Are Closing.....

[CamdenRob]

The thing is though we all bemoan the closure of traditional music shops whilst buying everything cheaper online from companies with no shop on the high street to pay for and massive buying power... can't really have it both ways can we?

Of course the crappy service experienced by he OP doesn't help matters.

[Skol303]

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1454945215' post='2974461']
You should really contact the owner of the shop to let him/her know how crap the staff have been. People often work extremely hard to build up a business but the staff they employ really couldn't give a toss.
[/quote]

This. I am that person who writes letters of complaint when I suffer from poor service - and I often receive discounted and/or free stuff in return.

Nine times out of ten, the business owners are very keen to rectify these things. You just need to give them opportunity to do so.

[PaulWarning]

I'm surprised any music shops are left open who don't do internet sales, people use the internet because it's cheaper (and more convenient a lot of the time) so they cut costs be employing spotty faced youths on the minimum wage who don't know what they're talking about, being a lefty I can't remember the last time I went into a music shop, oh yeah I can, wanted a combo stand, neither one had what I wanted so I got one from Amazon.
Whenever I even look into the window of one all I see are cheap starter guitars and basses but am still amazed at how much money is tied up in stock (I assume they have to pay for it when it's delivered and not when they sell it)
I used to run a newsagent they're all closing down as well, and pubs, if there's insufficient demand, it means they're not wanted and they'll close down,

[Sausages]

This stuff happens a lot, and it's not just music shops. I have seen some ridiculous behaviour from shop staff of all ages. CamdenRob is right that we can't have it both ways, but one of the reasons I shop so much online is to avoid some of these idiots with their smirking and piss taking.

[chris_b]

Unfortunately it's a fact of retail now that the only music shops that are going to survive are the ones fronting a successful online operation.

[gareth]

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1454939475' post='2974372']
I have broken another Fender instrument lead. No big deal, except I'm quite careful with my gear, and it's the second one in months. It's a tweedy one, which I like, and it's broken at the jack plug entry as the shrinky tube they use is not very stiff and does not support the lead terribly well. That's also what happened to the last one.
"Aha" says my guitarist mate "you need some of those Whirlwind ones. They're not cheap but they are the mutt's nut's".
I look online, I ring a local -ish (25 minute drive) guitar shop who advertises them and ask: "Do you have these, I want two 8' ones and an 18' one, all tweedy, all with sliver stripe" "yes" says man "I've got a whole wall of them, come on down".
Sunday morning, guitar friend and I pop off down there for a look see and to spend some money. Uninterested spotty youth says "they are all there, that's all we've got, there's non anywhere else" and points to a smallish rack with a lot of Fender leads, and some Whirlwind leads but not the ones I want. "Are you sure" I ask "as I rang and someone said you'd got loads of them" "That's all we've got, there's no more anywhere else....." like a stuck record. I express my displeasure at having our time wasted: spotty youth doesn't really give a s*** makes no effort to offer to order them, can't wait to get back to whatever he was doing before we ruined his Sunday morning by wanting to buy something. I won't go there again. Ever. Even though it's the nearest one to where I live. I don't suppose my mate will go there again either. Will I miss it if it goes? Not really.I'll just order them online from Nevada or Anderton's like I should have done in the first place (but I did want to see one this time so I could make my mind up that they were worth the money)
What part of "Service" don't these places get?
Oh - and in case you're interested, it's "Guitar Sound" in Chichester. I don't normally "Name & Shame" but on this occasion I'm so pi**ed off I will.
[/quote]it must be a miserable time for any retail shop business. They've got rent, rates, etc to pay and what do they give you that you cannot get online at the same or probably lower prices. The retail shops that will survive will be the ones yesterday are innovative and/or run a mail order/internet/wholesale business side by side.

Me I hate shopping in shops but I love internet shopping. The Levi's I like are 35 waist 32 leg. These are available in usa but not here. If I go to debenhams I have to pay £90 for a size I don't want, usually 36 waist. So I get them online, often used for about £20 delivered. Who buys new musical instruments and why? I buy them used at 2/3rds or half shop price. Basses are just wood, plastic, magnets and wires. Where's the risk in buying used?

"Retail therapy" it's just a trap to keep the rats on the wheel of work, you can never have enough stuff.

Get off the wheel

Edited February 8, 2016 by gareth

[discreet]

[quote name='gareth' timestamp='1454952416' post='2974561']
"Retail therapy" it's just a trap to keep the rats on the wheel of work, you can never have enough stuff. Get off the wheel.
[/quote]

Yep, I am slowly working towards minimising my possessions... honest.
And incidentally, I'd love to be able to get into 35" waist jeans. Or even 36" waist jeans. Or even 40" waist jeans.
Anyway buying jeans is 'retail therapy' I just have a loin-cloth made out of an old tea towel and stay in a lot.

[phil.c60]

"I just have a loin cloth made out of an old tea towel" - no you don't, I've seen that photo of you in your pants.

[Roger2611]

[quote name='Sausages' timestamp='1454951229' post='2974549']
This stuff happens a lot, and it's not just music shops. I have seen some ridiculous behaviour from shop staff of all ages. CamdenRob is right that we can't have it both ways, but one of the reasons I shop so much online is to avoid some of these idiots with their smirking and piss taking.
[/quote]

I agree that we can't have it both ways but, we seem to be getting the worst of all worlds. I have always tried to buy from smaller long established shops rather than the big multi national music shops from where I find the bulk of the poor customer service comes, the trouble is that the likes of Fender and Gibson put totally unreasonable quotas on the small shops resulting in them losing the support of these big suppliers and as a knock on, the attractive products that took us into the shops on a regular basis.

I have seen 4 fantastic local independent music shops close or stop stocking guitars (Phoenix, Buck Wild, Paddy Reid's and Rocky Road) in the last few years leaving me with only PMT now as my local shop...it's been two years since I last went in there...why? Because the customer service isn't great, the PX values are laughable..... and for some strange reason they have no used stock (possibly linked to their PX values me thinks!) When I buy now I try to use Richtone, 120 miles away in Sheffield, I get good customer service there, there PX offers are as bad as PMT but the second hand stock they carry is normally very attractively priced so I guess I can live with an unattractive PX offer if the item I want to buy is fairly priced.

[4stringslow]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1454950358' post='2974531']
The thing is though we all bemoan the closure of traditional music shops whilst buying everything cheaper online from companies with no shop on the high street to pay for and massive buying power... can't really have it both ways can we?
[/quote]

But do we all bemoan the closure of traditional music shops? I don't because it would be hypocritical of me as I buy most of my stuff online - and not just because of price, but because it's far more convenient and saves me loads of time.

You're right that we can't have it both ways, but I'd dispute that anyone seriously thinks we can.

[BassTractor]

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1454953572' post='2974571']
I've seen that photo of you in your pants.
[/quote]

Demm! I'd almost forgotten that, but you just had to bring it back!
I'll have to go in retail therapy now.

[bassninja]

[quote name='Dropzone' timestamp='1454948988' post='2974507']
Sad news, the chap running owner Guitar Junction is a really nice chap and is struggling to keep the shop alive in a town with rent as high as Chichester. I would recommend trying GB music in Bognor. Dave is a top bloke and assists greatly in the local music scene.
[/quote]

It's sad that a half-arsed spotty Herbert can jeopardise his employer's business like that. Never been to the Chi shop, doesn't seem much happening there of interest to the bass fraternity. My bro has got decent deals on a Martin and a nice mahogany Taylor there in the last couple of years, mind.

+1 for Dave Cox at GB in Bognor.

Also, he's a bit of an expert on/collector of Hagstrom guitars & basses if that's your thing...

[Lozz196]

The other thing of course to consider, are the prices. My local music shop sells my fave set of strings at about £22. I can get them delivered from an online purchase for £12. Now if I only used 2 or 3 sets of strings a year I might do the support the local shop etc, but a new set every month, well it`s a difference of £120 over a year or looking at it objectively, next years strings almost for free. I understand overheads etc, but at the end of the day I only have a certain amount of money and that also dictates where I spend it, as much as customer service/staff knowledge, things like that.

[colgraff]

Living in the hinterland, as I do, travel to a music shop is either a 22 mile round trip to PMT or independent store (both have cracking service) or the internet. I confess to liking having physical stores but disliking the journey and preferring the convenience of the internet. The very definition of hypocrisy. xxx

[cybertect]

I have the luxury of Wunjo Bass being about five minutes walk from my office in London. Lawrence and the Toms are a delight to deal with and they're usually competitive with any deals I can find on line.

On the matter of Whirlwind cables - I have two Whirlwinds that I bought around 1990 which I'm still gigging with over a quarter of a century later, so I'm pretty happy with them.

Unfortunately Wunjo Bass didn't have any a few weeks ago when I went in to get a replacement for a (non-Whirlwind) cable that was going dodgy; I had to go a couple of doors along the street to Wunjo's guitar shop to get one

[4stringslow]

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1455014834' post='2974953']
Living in the hinterland, as I do, travel to a music shop is either a 22 mile round trip to PMT or independent store (both have cracking service) or the internet. I confess to liking having physical stores but disliking the journey and preferring the convenience of the internet. The very definition of hypocrisy. xxx
[/quote]

I wouldn't call that hypocrisy, more practicality. Why add all that time and cost overhead to a shopping trip when it can be done online? It's also a lot 'greener', if you care about such things.

[chris_b]

I'm still using a 27 year old Whirlwind cable which has done many hundreds of gigs.

Unfortunately the current Whirlwind's are not a patch on the old ones. For a start they only have a 5 year guarantee as opposed to the 25 years guarantee that mine had.

Apart from that cable all my leads are OBBM. Dave is the only guy I'd talk to these days.

[phil.c60]

Have spoken to Dave via email - he's away now until the 18th and doesn't really get involved with the tweedy thing (he has some in yellow but doesn't really like it much as a cable) so it may have to be Whirlwind after all.

[Carl W - Guitar Sound]

Hi Phil,

A friend just sent me this discussion link and as the owner of Guitar Sound I wanted a chance to reply. Firstly I'm sorry we got it wrong on this occasion, you're absolutely right we want to give every customer who walks in justification as to why they've shopped locally and clearly that didn't happen. We do stock a range of Whirlwind cables, I can see the 18ft braided black/silver cable you mentioned on the wall at the moment so it's a shame the staff didn't point it out to you.

I have to say though we do usually get it right and the shop has been such a success I'm about to open another. Online selling is fantastically convenient and we all take advantage of it but bricks and mortar retail still comes in to its own for a more tactile sale like a guitar. The success of the shop shows how many customers have chosen the shop as a preferred means of purchasing a guitar so I think there's a future for guitar shops yet. Clearly we got it wrong with you for the minute or so we saw you on that particular day, and that can happen, but I do promise we also get it right most of the time and we'd always love another chance to prove it.

Carl

[Mudpup]

[quote name='Carl W - Guitar Sound' timestamp='1455055751' post='2975586']
Hi Phil,

A friend just sent me this discussion link and as the owner of Guitar Sound I wanted a chance to reply. Firstly I'm sorry we got it wrong on this occasion, you're absolutely right we want to give every customer who walks in justification as to why they've shopped locally and clearly that didn't happen. We do stock a range of Whirlwind cables, I can see the 18ft braided black/silver cable you mentioned on the wall at the moment so it's a shame the staff didn't point it out to you.

I have to say though we do usually get it right and the shop has been such a success I'm about to open another. Online selling is fantastically convenient and we all take advantage of it but bricks and mortar retail still comes in to its own for a more tactile sale like a guitar. The success of the shop shows how many customers have chosen the shop as a preferred means of purchasing a guitar so I think there's a future for guitar shops yet. Clearly we got it wrong with you for the minute or so we saw you on that particular day, and that can happen, but I do promise we also get it right most of the time and we'd always love another chance to prove it.

Carl
[/quote]

Well said......

[TheGreek]

[quote name='Carl W - Guitar Sound' timestamp='1455055751' post='2975586']
Hi Phil,

A friend just sent me this discussion link and as the owner of Guitar Sound I wanted a chance to reply. Firstly I'm sorry we got it wrong on this occasion, you're absolutely right we want to give every customer who walks in justification as to why they've shopped locally and clearly that didn't happen. We do stock a range of Whirlwind cables, I can see the 18ft braided black/silver cable you mentioned on the wall at the moment so it's a shame the staff didn't point it out to you.

I have to say though we do usually get it right and the shop has been such a success I'm about to open another. Online selling is fantastically convenient and we all take advantage of it but bricks and mortar retail still comes in to its own for a more tactile sale like a guitar. The success of the shop shows how many customers have chosen the shop as a preferred means of purchasing a guitar so I think there's a future for guitar shops yet. Clearly we got it wrong with you for the minute or so we saw you on that particular day, and that can happen, but I do promise we also get it right most of the time and we'd always love another chance to prove it.

Carl
[/quote]

Hey Carl

Good of you to take the time to join the forum and respond in person. Suggests that you do, in fact, care..

Personally if I was in the OP's position I'd like something to appease me for the trouble/ poor service and to encourage me to continue to shop locally - i.e. your store. Why not offer him (and any other BC member) a generous reduction to entice us into your store?? Remember reputation is everything. What better way to boost your reputation that to be valued by the most popular bass players' site in Europe?

Perfect opportunity to get a ton of free advertising..

Edited February 9, 2016 by TheGreek

[Bobthedog]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1455056351' post='2975592']


Hey Carl

Good of you to take the time to join the forum and respond in person. Suggests that you do, in fact, care..

Personally if I was in the OP's position I'd like something to appease me for the trouble/ poor service and to encourage me to continue to shop locally - i.e. your store. Why not offer him (and any other BC member) a generous reduction to entice us into your store?? Remember reputation is everything. What better way to boost your reputation that to be valued by the most popular bass players' site in Europe?

Perfect opportunity to get a ton of free advertising..
[/quote]

Personally I think that is an unfair position to put Carl into. If he does not respond positively he will be dammed, if he does, he loses revenue for no reason at all. I would rather pay a higher price for good service than a discounted price for poor service. The fact he responded at all would be enough for me to revisit if I was the OP. After all it was the staff, not the shop that caused the problem.

[blue]

We have Cream City here in Milwaukee, probably the largest Gretch selection in the country. They specialize in high end and vintage gear. Pretty expensive shop.

Blue

[ubit]

I feel for you, but think maybe it's wrong to boycott the shop just because one disinterested guy didn't help you. Maybe it was his last day on the job, maybe he has gone now. You did say that the guy on the phone was helpful, so perhaps you shouldn't be too hasty. I would normally say, right, that's it, not coming back here, after at least two snubbings!

[leftybassman392]

[quote name='Bobthedog' timestamp='1455061128' post='2975639']
Personally I think that is an unfair position to put Carl into. If he does not respond positively he will be dammed, if he does, he loses revenue for no reason at all. I would rather pay a higher price for good service than a discounted price for poor service. The fact he responded at all would be enough for me to revisit if I was the OP. After all it was the staff, not the shop that caused the problem.
[/quote]

This. When I first read The Greek's post, the thing that sprang into my head was 'opportunism' (no offence intended, but that's how it came across). Surely the price the customer pays for the more tactile shopping experience is contributing a little something to the cost of providing that experience. The shop owner was considerate enough to come on here of his own volition to answer for the actions of his staff member (who I hope has been chastised in fulsome terms!). Isn't that enough?