do you have a technique for writing

[christofloffer]

i would like to refine my writing a bit, so i have been experimenting with different methods. some are definitely easier than others. for years i would think up a tune in my head and figure out the various parts in their entirety, but then i would really struggle to replicate them. then of course the end results would be similar but not quite what i had imagined and i would spend a long time trying to fix it.
so at the moment i have broken down all my old tunes into the separate riffs and lines. then i write a tune based on a riff and see if it works. the main thing is that i dont have a plan for these kinds of tune so its always a mystery to me when it comes to how the final product will sound. its great in as much as it ends up making me try new ideas and instruments out, but rather labour intensive. a big problem is that everything i do is instrumental as i cant write lyrics and dont do singing. so i cant even follow the feel of the lyrics
i find it best to come up with a melody first, then record it roughly. then i sit with it on loop and play along with the bass to find a line to suit. then i suss out the drums for it and re-record the guitars/keys and bass with the drums. then once i have the base in i can experiment with other stuff. so i end up redoing a lot of stuff over and over for the writing, and then over and over again for the final recording.
whenever i try to write around a bass line i can get the drums ok but i always struggle to find a melody to suit. if i do find a reasonable melody then i always struggle to get it to fit.
i dont think i have ever managed to write from a drum track either.

logic would tell me to have a idea, do the drums, then the bass, then the melody. that would give me a reasonable foundation that is pretty solid, but i find it difficult to work that way. so i was wondering if there is any other ways of writing to try out. i am always looking to find different ways of doing things and different styles. the way i figure it, the more i can learn the more i can pick and choose the best bits.

[adamg67]

Jamming with people is how I like to do it. All our best stuff just came from either drums, bass or guitar just playing something and then everyone jamming along. You have to work on it once you've got the basic idea and they don't all make it, but 9 times out of 10 the ideas that just come to us on the spot are the best ones. We've banned our drummer from thinking about things, they always sound contrived.

If I'm at home I'll just set up a random beat and jam to that, or dig out old ideas and jam to them, or just play around.

I do write in my head a bit as well, but often starting with an idea, but I sort of jam in my head and just let ideas come out.

I have a feeling this is different for everyone though.

[RhysP]

I always start with lyrics & vocal melody, I don't even pick up a guitar until much later on in the process.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='christofloffer' timestamp='1455111839' post='2975988']
i would like to refine my writing a bit...
[/quote]

I might be wrong (apologies in advance if that's the case...), but it seems that you're using the term 'writing' as a substitute for 'composing'..? It strikes me that you've not got a system for getting the sound in your head down other than to play/record it. Have you envisaged literally 'writing it down'..? I'll anticipate a reply of 'I don't read/write music notation', and I'd suggest that it doesn't have to be in 'classical' style (although that would help a lot, in my view...). Jotting down a melody can be in any form that you can, yourself, read back later on, and can be as simple or as complex as you wish. Higher/lower pitch, some form of timing and/or rhythmic symbolism can do the trick. Many eminent composers have their own 'shorthand' for jottings and 'work in progress', so you'd be in good company..! It could, at best, trigger an interest in developing some more formal notational skills; I'd suggest that it's not all that hard, at least for the more simple stuff at first, and gets much, much easier as one actually does it, rather than simply studying it from an academic point of view.
Whilst I'm here, I was a bit surprised to not see any mention of chords in your post. Does your music not use 'em at all..? That would surprise me, as, in a great many instances, a bass line is rather subservient to both the melody and chord structure. This may not be relevant to you, of course.
I would agree that starting from a melody, then 'fleshing it out' is a perfectly valid and common way of getting a start on a work. There are other ways, but they would be dependant somewhat on your goals. As an example, I would often firstly find a chord sequence which pleases me (either totally from scratch, or by 'borrowing' from other sources, such as standard progressions or songs that have the notion I'm interested in...), then play around with them, swapping around, repeating elements, reversing stuff... whatever. I, too, have a very poor output when it comes to lyrics, and have for decades adopted the stance of 'if one has nothing to say, say nothing'. Melodies come easily enough, but much more so over a chordal structure. Working out chords from melody is slightly more fraught; I have to find a second, then third melody that will all go in the direction I'm working on.
I don't, myself, physically write much down, but use tools such as Guitar Pro and Band In A Box (BIAB...) to convert my doodlings on keyboard (either piano or PC...) into standard notation. I'll then 'tweak' a lot in MIDI, on a piano-roll editor. Cumbersome, certainly, but less so, to me, than realms of paper..! I have done so in the past, however; much more on drum scores (after all, I'm basically a drummer..!) as not much is/was available for transcribing, so I just had to get stuck in. I do, of course, often compose from having thought of a beat or riff as a consequence, as that's my main instrument. No big surprise there, then..!
Not sure if this is going to help you enormously; hoping others chip in...

Edited February 10, 2016 by Dad3353

[Lozz196]

Sometimes it`s a vocal melody, sometimes it`s a bassline/riff that start it all off. Once I`ve got what I want from it I take it to the band and we then write the whole song together.

[RhysP]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1455114344' post='2976032']
....and have for decades adopted the stance of 'if one has nothing to say, say nothing'.
[/quote]

You could have fooled me.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1455114825' post='2976039']
You could have fooled me.
[/quote]

'Could have' being the operative part.

[xgsjx]

I've no set pattern. This month's competition I used the photo for inspiration for the lyrics, so I knew I wanted something uplifting.
I wrote a simple chord/hook pattern & the whole song revolves around it. With this style of song, I write everything on a loop of either 16 or 32 bars. So the whole lot is in that one section.
I then paste it for about 3-4 mins, making an intro, a verse/chorus, a break/build & then back with full sound & then break it down a touch.
Then I wrote the lyrics & rearranged parts to suit the lyrics. Finally I messed about with fx & incidentals.

Sometimes it can be where I come up with a chord arrangement & build on it from there, other times I'll have a bassline & work on it from there. I don't normally write much lyrics (as I'm not much of a singer).

[christofloffer]

i suppose it is more composing than writing. i very rarely write anything down, especially at the moment. given that recently i have been doing stuff without a specific idea in mind, its not really worth it as i just stick it right into the recording as i go and refine it later. i occasionally put drum rhythms on the back of my hand if i am out and about. its hardly proper notation but i know hydrogen pretty well so i can translate it into a sequence later. other than that i have never really written anything down, unless its weeks between getting to sit down at the computer i can remember stuff pretty accurately. actually doing it is a different story.

i suppose that my current style is kind of like a pseudo-jam. most of the other musicians i have known tend to get on my nerves so i never jammed with people. there is one chap that i see fairly regularly, but most of the time i knock up a base and then we mess around and record over to see if we like the idea.

as for chords, i have a fairly strange relationship with melody and chords. what usually happens is that the melody evolves, or devolves depending on your point of view, into chords with slight embellishments. i have a thing about single notes, they always sound horrible to my ears when i play them. i can listen someone else in the same room doing it but i hate it myself. i have a compulsive need to fill things out, so i suss the melody that was in my head and then it gets filled out and the original things is lost. sometimes i can kind of deal with it when i am recording but i find it impossible to do do when figuring things out. its very odd i know and i am sure there would be many psychological reasons for it, but thats how it goes. so i guess my melody is more akin to a chord progression. that why i like the idea of working with my friend as he is most definitely a lead man, which leaves me able to take a step back into a more comfortable place. we havent really gotten to writing anything yet though. at the moment i just make drum,bass and backing tracks in various styles for him to lead over. we are very much still experimenting.

lyrics are a dark art though. i tried to write stuff a long time ago but it always sounded really stupid when i read it back, or sounded very overly ambiguous. i am hoping that once me and my friend have sorted out our various places and what kind of thing to start with he will bring some lyrics to the table that we can write around. he is significantly more articulate than me and he has the swagger to carry it off.

[Rikki1984]

[quote name='christofloffer' timestamp='1455124563' post='2976206']
i tried to write stuff a long time ago but it always sounded really stupid when i read it back, or sounded very overly ambiguous.
[/quote]

That is a perfect description of every lyric I've ever written!
I just console myself that most people won't listen to the words anyway. I usually start with such grand ideas but my lack lyrical talent quickly soon quills my ambitions!

In terms of writing, I usually start off with a bassline or chord progression. From there I fill out the instruments so I have drums, rhythm guitar, bass and maybe some melodic guitar. That usually winds up as the verse.
Then the same way I come up with a chorus section and maybe a middle 8 and prechorus.

Generally I intend the song not to have much vocals but at this point I realise that it sounds a bit empty without them, so then I try to come up with a vocal melody which I usually hum. Then I try to wrote words that fit.
Vocals/lyrics are always the weakest part of my songs - I don't know why I keep adding them! :-P

[Zenitram]

Every good artist will create a lot more rubbish than a bad artist. It's how you get better. A bad writer will write something and thinks it's pretty good. A good writer will write a dozen pieces and throw 11 of them out in frustration.

[BigRedX]

Inspiration comes in lots of different ways - a baseline, guitar riff, sequence, synthesiser sound etc. I'll then take that inspiration and work on it until I have at least a verse and chorus idea that I like. I'm lucky in that I have a great vocalist/lyricist/drummer as my song-writing partner and we bounce ideas off each other. Normally we'll come up with at least a couple of song ideas every month that get presented to the band to work on the arrangements, although we usually have a pretty good idea of what we want the other instruments to be doing before we get the whole band together.

[Doctor J]

I usually either hear something in my head and try to work it out or I just faff around on guitar or bass until I play something I like the sound of. If it's something just for myself, I'd make a rough map of the song to a click track, flesh out the other parts. Often, at this stage, I'd have a line or two of vocals in my head too, a hook. I would do the full arrangement of the song to click, just with a rough guitar track and everything else in my head. Then I'd record drums - up until a couple of years ago i did this literally, playing and recording a full kit in the house but I wasn't playing drums frequently enough to stay at a standard I liked so I sold the kit and turned to midi - and build up from there. I always bounce down rough mixes as I go along and listen to them away from instruments, just see what I can come up with while listening and then try to figure out how to get close to what I envisage the song to be when I record it in the real world. It is all down to the work ethic though, much as I con myself otherwise. I really like the deadline of the composition competition, it forces you to do a bit of work which I'm hoping to take into the 50 or so songs I have in various stages of completion I started recording over the last eight or nine years - when I moved to a rural house with no neighbours so I could make as much noise as I liked. I find the ideas come easily, actually finishing something is the hard part but it's really is down to getting of your arse and grafting. I'm finding writing lyrics very hard at the moment. I want to have something of substance, tell a story, make a point, whatever - I used to write lyrics for a couple of my bands in my youth but it really doesn't come easy any more. Maybe it's an age thing.

With the band, generally, it starts with a riff. If I come up with something I'll record it into the phone and then come back and build from the drums up. I tend to leave the arrangements open, just record a verse, chorus and a couple of related bits and then let it be finished with the input of the entire band. Our singer writes the lyrics so I leave him to it.

[Old_Ben]

Normally I'll start with a riff I like the sound of, then work out roughly what the basic chords are for it, then build a verse and/or chorus and rinse and repeat. Maybe keeping chords but changing the rhythm or vice versa. Add bass solo and then fin.

[BigRedX]

For songs that will be presented to a band I never record anything when I'm at the writing stage as it tends to set the parts in stone too much. If I can't remember the part I play (most likely the bass) then it probably wasn't good enough in the first place. For the other parts I might have ideas but I would prefer the other musicians to put their own twist on them rather than slavishly copying me which is what tends to happen IME with recorded "demos".

[Old_Ben]

With band stuff I tend to give a riff, chorus and verse sections just for people to learn the basics of what is going on, and then we play around with structures and other bits to make the song a band song as opposed to them playing as I gave it to them. But we all have an understanding that nothing is concrete and anything can be changed if we feel it's not working. Getting too attached to something you've given to a band to make a song will just end in it either; not being used, or people not liking the song to it's fullest potential if they feel that they weren't allowed to add their stamp on it. Unless you're a solo artist and they're session musicians I don't see why anyone would do this anyway.

[Skol303]

[i]“Yes and no”[/i] for me… in that I obviously do have a process (everyone does), but it’s not a conscious thing that I follow methodically, step by step, because I understand what works (I don’t!). Which is how I imagine trained songwriters and composers go about writing music.

In terms of inspiration, my approach goes something like this:
[list]
[*][i]“An idea popping into any head”[/i] I know, very scientific! I’m lucky, perhaps, in that I find it very easy to visualise (auralise?) musical ideas. Touch wood, there’s no shortage of inspiration in my noggin. It’s more a lack of time to get everything out and written/recorded. I tend to have something playing on a loop in my head nearly all the time. It’s a bit like tinnitus (which I also have): I only really notice it when I think about it, or when in a quiet room. I’ve read that it can be linked to the same part of the brain that triggers schizophrenia (phantom voices) and is reassuringly very common. For me, it’s a great asset and means I’ve never stumped for ideas.
[/list][list]
[*][i]“Hearing something I like and then trying to mimic it”[/i]. I try to grab influences from everywhere. I’m keenly interested in electronic music (it’s still a new frontier with huge scope), but I’ll also [s]steal[/s] borrow ideas from pop, rock, funk, jazz, classical, whatever. I like trying to mimic the sounds of different genres - it teaches me about both the compositional and technical aspects of music - and it means that I don’t get stuck in any one rut, which is when ideas tend to dry up. So I use a lot of reference material when making music: I’ll choose a few tracks that I want to sound like and then use those as a ‘palette’ when selecting sounds, making mixing decisions, etc.
[/list]

What I definitely [i]don’t[/i] do is think about chords, keys, scales or apply any sense of music theory whatsoever - for no reason other than my own ignorance. I just don’t know about any of that stuff. So I simply write what sounds good to me. Obviously, this is underpinned by music theory but I’m blissfully unaware of it.

In terms of actual production process, my approach is probably very similar to many other people:
[list=1]
[*]I sketch out my idea in MIDI, not worrying about choice of sounds to start with - just getting down the basic arrangement.
[*]I then record any ‘live’ parts that are needed - for me that’s bass, guitar, vocal and occasionally piano.
[*]Follow that, I then start on the more detailed work - selecting the right sounds for any MIDI tracks; adding dynamic FX and other processing; gain staging and producing a first rough mix.
[*]Once everything is sounding right, I then concentrate on finishing the mix.
[*]Finally, I bounce the mix down to a single audio file (high resolution .wav) and do my best to master it (applying bus FX and bumping the loudness if the genre warrants it).
[*]I then upload it to SoundCloud and go do some housework to placate my dear wife.
[/list]

Job done

[RockfordStone]

i start with nothing and generally end with nothing...

in seriousness, i do a lot of my "writing" whilst composing on the computer. I will have my guitar plugged in and my bass plugged in and noddle with one or other until something sticks, either that or i find a tempo and drum beat i like and work from that. generally once i come up with a rhythm, tempo and a guitar or bass line i then expand it from there. at that point i sort of write melodies as i go along and then don't even really sort vocals out till the end.

i'm a very simple person