Tuning a bass...

[Lfalex v1.1]

Whilst wildly philosophising and rationalising last night at work, I ended up approaching the subject of the tunings of (orchestral) string section instruments.
As far as I know, they're all tuned in fifths. Cellos certainly are. Basses are the only exception. They (as we all know!) are tuned in fourths, presumably because of the fingering issues that would occur on an instrument with a 41" scale.

But most electric basses are not [i]that[/i] long. They range from short (around 30" - or 22" if you own an Ashbory) to around 35 or 36" (although there are longer)
Cellos have roughly a 34" scale length. Like your average bass.

So I thought;

How about tuning a 4 string:
(Low/Drop) D (.110)
(Regular) A (.085)
(up from D) E (0.50)
(down from high C to) B (0.35)

(I think that's right. Someone please confirm or correct. I didn't have any instruments or equipment to suss it out on)
String gauges were a best guess, and it might take some alteration to get the tension feeling roughly right.
But look at the range! on a 24-fretter, it's only 4 semitones (in relative terms) short of covering a concert-pitch tuned 6 string.

Oh, and the chordal possibilities look good too

Anyone done it?
Anyone have any input or ideas?

I reckon the nut might need replacing.
Saddle travel maybe an issue for intonation
Truss-rod might need adjustment to cope with the slightly "odd" tension in the strings.

Thanks everyone!

Alex

[bnt]

I've thought about this too, but I was thinking of going direct to an octave below Cello: CGDA, +E on the 5-string. The low C would be a semitone above Low B, so a standard string would work, but the E would be 4-semitones above a High C, so I would need something like 0.020" for that. The strings would look something like: 0.020" 0.045" 0.070" 0.100" 0.130"

[Oscar South]

I've toyed with this idea, I'd just go with CGDA cello tuning though.

[thisnameistaken]

Make sure you do some good warm-up exercises before you try any disco octaves.

[Oscar South]

Octaves are pretty easy, you just have to get used to the reverse octave pattern you hold to play them.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='Oscar South' post='287892' date='Sep 20 2008, 11:01 AM']Octaves are pretty easy, you just have to get used to the reverse octave pattern you hold to play them.[/quote]

Just string it back to front so your octave pattern stays the same ! Mr Schmidt manages...

[markytbass]

A guy I know has a Ric tuned funny, DADC I think

[bnt]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='287893' date='Sep 20 2008, 11:07 AM']Just string it back to front so your octave pattern stays the same ! Mr Schmidt manages...[/quote]

If you can deal with bass in Fifths, in reverse order, you should be playing a Chapman Stick. That's the part that tripped me up...

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Oscar South' post='287878' date='Sep 20 2008, 10:40 AM']I've toyed with this idea, I'd just go with CGDA cello tuning though.[/quote]

I Went DAEB so I could have at least one string at or around it's normal pitch/position on the neck for reference, and to avoid gauge/tension issues.
Oh, and to appeal to drop D crowd (conceptually, at least!)
Not that I knew the Cello's tuning was CGDA!

[bnt]

NS Design has a [url="http://www.nedsteinberger.com/instruments/basscello.php"]Bass Cello[/url] that can be tuned CGDAE. The website doesn't give the gauges for the string sets they sell for it... but at $190 a set, I don't think I'm interested. If I try it, I'll get a custom [url="http://status-graphite.com/"]Status Graphite[/url] set - they even do them in double ball, which would suit my old Hohner.

Edited September 20, 2008 by bnt

[The Burpster]

Jeez that NS is wonderful......

I want one.....

[Oscar South]

[quote name='bnt' post='287918' date='Sep 20 2008, 11:45 AM']NS Design has a [url="http://www.nedsteinberger.com/instruments/basscello.php"]Bass Cello[/url] that can be tuned CGDAE. The website doesn't give the gauges for the string sets they sell for it... but at $190 a set, I don't think I'm interested. If I try it, I'll get a custom [url="http://status-graphite.com/"]Status Graphite[/url] set - they even do them in double ball, which would suit my old Hohner.[/quote]

I'd just buy individual Rotosounds or something, I wouldn't go too overboard for a trial run.

[bnt]

[quote name='Oscar South' post='287942' date='Sep 20 2008, 12:32 PM']I'd just buy individual Rotosounds or something, I wouldn't go too overboard for a trial run.[/quote]
Same, thing really - you order individual strings, and they're not expensive. I just called it "custom" because last time I did that they packed them with an ego-boosting "custom set" label, that made it look as if I knew what I was doing.

[Faithless]

[quote name='markytbass' post='287897' date='Sep 20 2008, 01:11 PM']A guy I know has a Ric tuned funny, DADC I think[/quote]


What about ACDC then?



Cheers

[pete.young]

I've heard of a few people tuning CGDA and then capoing on the 12th fret to give Cello pitch.

Here's another interesting variation:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9F3vwvrWM4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9F3vwvrWM4[/url]

[The Funk]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='287851' date='Sep 20 2008, 09:54 AM']Anyone done it?
Anyone have any input or ideas?[/quote]

Check out information about the tenor guitar, a 4-stringed member of the guitar family tuned in 5ths. The scale length is usually a lot shorter than bass guitar though: around 23"-ish.

[ARGH]

pfft...Man tuning to 5ths isnt new...

But seriously,Manring ran a BIG long column on CGDA in Bassplayer about 15 years ago,all the harmonics etc. I tried it on fretless,and stopped as it was confusing to other people onstage,and for myself.

[Steve Woodcock]

[quote name='bnt' post='287907' date='Sep 20 2008, 11:23 AM']If you can deal with bass in Fifths, in reverse order, you should be playing a Chapman Stick. That's the part that tripped me up... [/quote]

For a while I had the melody side of my Stick tuned to the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Standard_Tuning"]Crafty[/url] tuning (all fifths except for the top two strings which were a minor third apart) á la Trey Gunn. Removed any last association the instrument had to a guitar or bass in my mind and led to some very angular melodies!

[Protium]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='287851' date='Sep 20 2008, 09:54 AM']How about tuning a 4 string:
(Low/Drop) D (.110)
(Regular) A (.085)
[b](up from D) E (0.50)
(down from high C to) B (0.35)[/b][/quote]

They're some seriously fat strings

[TheDarkReaver]

[quote name='Stickman' post='288353' date='Sep 21 2008, 02:31 AM']For a while I had the melody side of my Stick tuned to the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Standard_Tuning"]Crafty[/url] tuning (all fifths except for the top two strings which were a minor third apart) á la Trey Gunn. Removed any last association the instrument had to a guitar or bass in my mind and led to some very angular melodies![/quote]

Sounds...interesting. I might try it on my guitar, see how I take to it. Just for kicks.

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='Protium' post='288866' date='Sep 21 2008, 11:39 PM']They're some seriously fat strings [/quote]
I'd say my bad, but if we actually used just one measuring system; Either imperial or metric, it'd make life easier.
I tend to use metric for fine measurement and imperial for the bigger stuff, hence the error.
If I'd converted the gauges to metric absolutely no one would've known what I was on about!

[frank]

Check out a fella called Joel quarrington (www.joelquarrington.com) he plays double bass tuned CGDA like a cello
apparently it gives you a fantastic range and is great for solos after you relearn the neck.
havent checked his site so not sure whats on it

I did tune one of my basses in 5th s to see what its like but the brain couldnt cope so quickly re tuned

This guy is a bit of a virtuoso he auditioned for the Toronto Symphony orchestra played the audition tuned in 4th s
then when he got the gig re tuned to 5th s

[OutToPlayJazz]

Fifths is easy, especially A D G C tuning, as so many instruments use it, ie. cello, viola, tenor banjo, etc... And the best part is that in 2nd poisition you get one semitone per finger, but make sure you do it on a shorter scale instrument. On a 34 or 35 you're going to do some serious tendon damage if you play one finger per fret in the lower reaches of the neck (anything below 7th position.)

[endorka]

Definitely, especially since the scale length of a full size cello is apparently 27.4", considerably shorter than that of a bass guitar, 34"...

Jennifer

[frank]

Im no great player but i found it very awkward to play even a major scale when tuned in 5th s
never mind a tune i know

just for the fun of it are there any other tunings for bass worth having a go at.