Never have "one more try" with an item you want to sell + Class D musings...

[fretmeister]

I had pretty much decided to sell my beloved Ampeg preamp and I took a load of good pictures. I was planning to sell because I'm downsizing in general, and I also find myself needing a guitar amp and need to raise some funds.

I hadn't turned it on for months so I wanted to make sure all was working perfectly before I listed it. I plugged it into the FX return of my little Puma 300 and just into a Barefaced One-10. Power amp and cab far removed from the Ampeg ethos of everything being massive.

It sounded amazing.

I'm actually really annoyed for 2 reasons. Firstly I was only checking everything was working and I did really want to sell it.

Secondly - Ampeg - FFS!!!! - take the tube preamp design and add a good Class D power amp! The power units are so small these days the whole thing could probably fit in a 1u box.

I've been reading the Class D / "Heft" arguments with interest and I'm beginning to wonder how much of an influence an older style preamp would have with a Class D power amp, even if the weight went up a bit.

The Demeter I just sold had that approach and was stunning (my favourite amp I've ever owned), but I was still surprised to discover that assembling the same concept with a standalone old fashioned Preamp and a Class D power amp had a very similar outcome, especially when the preamp was designed when Class D wasn't available for instrument amps.

Unfortunately I don't have the technical knowledge to begin to explain - but I can certainly hear more weight / heft just with using the ampeg rather than the Puma's own preamp.

Still, the Ampeg has gone back into the "don't sell it" pile, and now I have to find sale items in the stupid pedal collection instead.

[chris_b]

I thought "weight" and "heft" came from the power section?

You can still sell the best you've ever owned if something else is a better fit. I sold my Wal. I still miss it, but as I hadn't even picked it up for over a year I guess didn't [i]need[/i] it.

I don't believe "old fashioned" gear sounds better than modern gear, per se, but it can be the best fit for the job or suit your preference.

Anyway, I always play all my gear with any new piece that I get. You can discover some great and unexpected combinations.

[fretmeister]

That's why I'm confused. I thought all the heft came from the power section - but there's a definite difference in changing preamps.

[Billy Apple]

Surely heft comes from the cab? ;-)

[chris_b]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1455531858' post='2979828']
there's a definite difference in changing preamps.
[/quote]

You've hit a sweet spot. That's a lucky accident.

Can you gig it with just a 110?

[fretmeister]

I use the 110 on it's own for the local educational music trust orchestra that my kids play in and it's great.

I'm not sure one would cope with a raging rock drummer though. Two might do the trick. Not sure I'd want to sell my Bergs to find out though.

[BassBunny]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1455529774' post='2979798']
I've been reading the Class D / "Heft" arguments with interest and I'm beginning to wonder how much of an influence an older style preamp would have with a Class D power amp, even if the weight went up a bit.
[/quote]

I have been thinking exactly the same thing. Having tried virtually every Class D available, I was unimpressed by all of them in a gig situation. I realised that I haven't tried a Class D with a pre-amp containing a Valve. There seems to be a lot of love for the Class D/Valve Pre construction so i may have to have one final attempt.

[fretmeister]

If you do - the Demeter head is stunning.

[Beer of the Bass]

I reckon "heft" is one of these rather nebulous concepts like "growl", where we might be referring to at least three different things by it and end up speaking at cross-purposes most of the time! I'm not even sure that the tonal characteristics that come from a valve power amp can usefully be described by a single term, as one might have under-rated transformers and filtering with minimal feedback, while another might have conservatively rated transformers, lots of filtering and extensive feedback, and the two would respond very differently.
If you're getting a sound that you like with that preamp into a class-D power amp, that's got to be worth exploring further.

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1455529774' post='2979798']
I had pretty much decided to sell my beloved Ampeg preamp and I took a load of good pictures. I was planning to sell because I'm downsizing in general, and I also find myself needing a guitar amp and need to raise some funds.

I hadn't turned it on for months so I wanted to make sure all was working perfectly before I listed it. I plugged it into the FX return of my little Puma 300 and just into a Barefaced One-10. Power amp and cab far removed from the Ampeg ethos of everything being massive.

It sounded amazing.

I'm actually really annoyed for 2 reasons. Firstly I was only checking everything was working and I did really want to sell it.

Secondly - Ampeg - FFS!!!! - take the tube preamp design and add a good Class D power amp! The power units are so small these days the whole thing could probably fit in a 1u box.

I've been reading the Class D / "Heft" arguments with interest and I'm beginning to wonder how much of an influence an older style preamp would have with a Class D power amp, even if the weight went up a bit.

The Demeter I just sold had that approach and was stunning (my favourite amp I've ever owned), but I was still surprised to discover that assembling the same concept with a standalone old fashioned Preamp and a Class D power amp had a very similar outcome, especially when the preamp was designed when Class D wasn't available for instrument amps.

Unfortunately I don't have the technical knowledge to begin to explain - but I can certainly hear more weight / heft just with using the ampeg rather than the Puma's own preamp.

Still, the Ampeg has gone back into the "don't sell it" pile, and now I have to find sale items in the stupid pedal collection instead.
[/quote]

The puma preamps are very neutral sounding infact they are probably have the only truly flat response preamp out there (with eq all on 12 o/c obviously) so a polar opposite tone wise of an ampeg preamp. I've owned an ampeg SVP in the past it while was a great sounding bit of kit but you can get within a knats whisker of it with a good analogue modeller (sansamp BDDI/VT), also the RH series preamps sound very similar.

Edited February 16, 2016 by bassman7755

[Reverend]

Shall we say the word 'heft' a lot?

[RandomBass]

[quote name='Reverend' timestamp='1455654589' post='2981254']
Shall we say the word 'heft' a lot?
[/quote]
Well that's quite a hefty demand...

[Chienmortbb]

A lot of respected poeple say that the valve sound comes from the power section. However even Ampeg use solid state in the SVT 3 series and In their pre amps they used real inductors for the tone and maybe that was what people rave about.

In my opinion all these bits are components and it is in the lap of the gods and the skill of the designer that determines what sounds good.