ubit Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1455816387' post='2982716'] Maybe it's different In England. Blue [/quote] Ahem...... It's Britain ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefbaker Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Being someone who's only ever played in one cover band and the rest being originals I have to say that yes, there is snobbery but the covers band was probably the least pressure and the most fun. 10 people turn up at a covers gig? Meh, who cares, I'm being paid and I'm enjoying playing it. 10 people turn up to see your original band? Stress, despondency, sadness at the promo you did. I guess people see less "artistry" in a covers band. There's an argument for that, not a 100% true one but there's an argument. As I get older the idea of playing in a covers band and just having a bit of fun is more and more attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 IIRC the OP was about a rhythm guitarist who can't take constructive criticism. How did we get here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1455873428' post='2983078'] IIRC the OP was about a rhythm guitarist who can't take constructive criticism. How did we get here? [/quote] because we always get here, all roads always lead to here...... or jaco... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalextra Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 [quote name='Wonky2' timestamp='1455820023' post='2982759'] A question to those who consider this to be their job..... A thread popped up a few weeks ago about "what constitutes being pro"..... Lots of different views there...ranging from ability to payment in general.... Not sure I agreed with a few but some interesting concepts... I guess "earning a living" is a loose concept for some as there is living hand to mouth for those who need little to get by and then there are those actively seeking commercial renumeration for services as a musician....profitable business that does more than just wash its face...an income comparable to your average "job" let's say for example £23k a year average..... I know when I used to play "professionally" ,it being my profession, my single source of income With turn turnover, overheads and profit, and sadley ....taxes! I was self employed and had to treat it in the same way a sole trading plumber or electrician would..... I'm not suggesting it's not the case for anyone here but I did wonder what "earning a living" looked like to others? My question is, assuming your income from playing is of an amount you could expect to live independently off, as per the example average income £23k p/a, if this is your "job" is your band registered as a business with you as an employee ? or are you registered individually as a sole trader, do you declare earnings and pay tax on your earnings? I did...had to..... To me, that's earning a living from it....... Just my view, others are available And yes...these days I have a less exciting job like most and play music for my own entertainment and joy.... It's much better this way as I play what I like, not what I'm paid to [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1455820662' post='2982764'] The hypocrisy, though, is that the majority of original bands are pretty awful. [/quote] A declaration of war! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutton Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 (edited) [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1455876552' post='2983124'] A declaration of war! [/quote] I can't imagine anything worse than going to hear the same covers played over and over again. At least with an originals band you can make up your own mind whether you like their stuff or not. How do we ever get to hear anything new? Also, remember that all songs that are covered had to be original when first written and performed. Is the compromise perhaps to have one or two well chosen covers in a set if you are an originals band. People don't always need to have the familiar to 'feel' the song! Edited February 19, 2016 by Hutton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1455876552' post='2983124'] A declaration of war! [/quote] No, just an over simplified statement of statistical theory... Most things fall into some form of distribution and that will include both cover and originals bands... As others have noted. On this table... X axis will be increasing goodness of band, Y axis will be number of bands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1455740068' post='2982046'] My job in my band is to play the best bass lines that compliment the songs we play, sing background vocals and maintain a certain level of stage presence. I was not hired to critique or correct other members playing ability. As long as our calender is filled with good gigs I keep quiet. Blue [/quote] Dragging us kicking and screaming back onto topic I found Blue's comments interesting although I didn't agree with them. The difficulty arises when the player thinks that they're doing just what Blue describes but on any reasonable measure isn't. Where they are playing something that clashes with the song and/or other band member (either because of a characteristic of the song - to over exaggerate effect, palm muted metal power chords all through Le Freak, a Mark King slap fest all through Elvis Costello's Shipbuilding... Or by consensus of the band that that isn't what is wanted/required for their version of that number). Then, and here is where I disagree with the last comment, it should be addressed within the band context. Sometimes one member is elected (or the first to blink and elect themselves out of necessity) to be the catalyst for addressing the problem. Unaddressed it just festers and causes even greater problems down the line. Humility and teachability are great character assets for any musician, as the willingness to play for the greater good not just oneself. There have been some really good bits of advice so far on how to help open the guitarist's eyes to a need to change already in ther thread, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 [quote name='Hutton' timestamp='1455877172' post='2983141'] At least with an originals band you can make up your own mind whether you like their stuff or not. How do we ever get to hear anything new? [/quote] Absolutely - having original bands performing their stuff is vital. Its the new blood. Just responding to the post that asked if there was a different attitude towards originals vs covers which i think there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1455820662' post='2982764'] I think it possibly is. There is a bit of a snobbish attitude to covers/function/tribute bands though i don't know why really. The hypocrisy, though, is that the majority of original bands are pretty awful. This is why they play free gigs, festivals and band bashes. An awful covers/function band won't last long cos the bookings won't happen but you can keep playing rubbish original tunes for a long time as no one is actually paying anything for it. [/quote] Seems like when I say I play in a bar level covers band on bass chat, I think people automatically think Bruno Mars, Lady GA GA, Mustang Sally. Coukdnt be further from the truth. You should think, Peter Green "Oh Well", Savoy Brown "Street Talkin" Nancy Sinatra our version of "Boots Are Made For Walking" and a few originals from the 2 cds we released. Blue Edited February 20, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 [quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1455958755' post='2983888'] No, just an over simplified statement of statistical theory... Most things fall into some form of distribution and that will include both cover and originals bands... As others have noted. On this table... X axis will be increasing goodness of band, Y axis will be number of bands... [/quote] Thanks for the basic stats lesson, prof. Now if you could just point on the X axis where "pretty awful" is, that would clear everything right up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Sigh... Just a straightforward way of saying actually only a few are at one extreme or another but most are in the middle. Therefore a few bands (covers or original) are rubbish, a few are absolutely amazing, most are, to one degree or another, OK to quite good... Sigh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyg42 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 We had a band on before us at a charity gig where the bassist was doing a twelve bar shuffle during Rocking All Over the World by the Quo! I had to walk away and wondered how the rest of the band let him get away with it. To me it was the equivalent of someone slapping over a Beatles classic!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Daveo Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Getting rid of a band member isn't always easy, I go by one rule would I go to hear them play. The answer to that question is key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 [quote name='barneyg42' timestamp='1455973959' post='2984111'] We had a band on before us at a charity gig where the bassist was doing a twelve bar shuffle during Rocking All Over the World by the Quo! I had to walk away and wondered how the rest of the band let him get away with it. To me it was the equivalent of someone slapping over a Beatles classic!! [/quote]Never mind the Beatles classic, it sounds like someone should have slapped HIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1455756143' post='2982244'] Question, am I the only guy on bass chat that loves gigging at the bar band level? Blue [/quote] I love gigging in pubs/bars, but then I have a day job. Colour me a weekend warrior and proud of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 [quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1455963856' post='2983965'] Dragging us kicking and screaming back onto topic I found Blue's comments interesting although I didn't agree with them. The difficulty arises when the player thinks that they're doing just what Blue describes but on any reasonable measure isn't. Where they are playing something that clashes with the song and/or other band member (either because of a characteristic of the song - to over exaggerate effect, palm muted metal power chords all through Le Freak, a Mark King slap fest all through Elvis Costello's Shipbuilding... Or by consensus of the band that that isn't what is wanted/required for their version of that number). Then, and here is where I disagree with the last comment, it should be addressed within the band context. Sometimes one member is elected (or the first to blink and elect themselves out of necessity) to be the catalyst for addressing the problem. Unaddressed it just festers and causes even greater problems down the line. Humility and teachability are great character assets for any musician, as the willingness to play for the greater good not just oneself. There have been some really good bits of advice so far on how to help open the guitarist's eyes to a need to change already in ther thread, [/quote] I agree with you Trevor. All I was saying I don't get involved in the critiquing or suggesting a change. We have a band leader for that. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 (edited) [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1455818332' post='2982744'] It's great that you love what you do. Really. But don't fool yourself it's a lifestyle that everyone else aspires to. That's all.[/quote] I get that, it's not for everyone and not even something I would reccomend. Blue Edited February 20, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 [quote name='ubit' timestamp='1455825355' post='2982805'] Ahem...... It's Britain ! [/quote] I'm lost, I referred to you guys as British once and someone came back at me, corrected me and said " We're English " Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 We are definitely British. Ignore the people who claim to be English, Scots, Welsh, Manx, or anything else. They are still British whether they care to admit it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Indeed - there's no such thing as an English, Scottish, Welsh, etc, passport - though it may be on the agenda of the various nationalist nutjobs. I'd be perfectly happy with a European passport or, better still, an 'Earthling' one. One day perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hutton Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 [quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1456003827' post='2984527'] Indeed - there's no such thing as an English, Scottish, Welsh, etc, passport - though it may be on the agenda of the various nationalist nutjobs. I'd be perfectly happy with a European passport or, better still, an 'Earthling' one. One day perhaps. [/quote] It would be nice to make your point and leave it at that instead of describing those who follow a nationalist agenda as nutjobs. Nice to see tolerance id alive and well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4stringslow Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I could point out that tolerance would allow me to use such a descriptor without castigation, especially in a topic about tolerating the intolerable I apologise if my chosen adjective struck a nerve but given the proclaimed agendas of organisations such as the BNP, EDL, UKIP etc, it was the politest one I could think of at the time. Feel free to suggest an alternative. I also apologise for the slight swerve into political territory. My bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) I'm English and I'm British. I've got ancestors who were Welsh and Scottish and Irish. I'm also European. I have other ancestors too but I don't really know about them. I've always suspected I was Phoenician. If he can't take constructive suggestions then sack him whatever his ethno-national status. Edited February 21, 2016 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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