40hz Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1480249541' post='3182752'] The problem with TE, IMO, is that the GP was so integral and only valves in the chain could sort it out. That sound is outdated and things move on. SWR and a Jazz was the beginning of the end for TE, imo. Always new kids on the block..except Ampeg who are still in denial.. [/quote] Genuinely curious? How do you consider the sound 'outdated'?. Up until recently I used a AH250 GP12smx and my sound is anything but 'dated'. In fact, using the graphic equaliser I would argue you could sculpt any tone you desired. From the deepest, dub tone to a bright aggressive tone with lots of sheen. Add in the valve preamp on the GP12 and you can get a warmer sound still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 [quote name='40hz' timestamp='1480255522' post='3182817'] Genuinely curious? How do you consider the sound 'outdated'?. Up until recently I used a AH250 GP12smx and my sound is anything but 'dated'. In fact, using the graphic equaliser I would argue you could sculpt any tone you desired. From the deepest, dub tone to a bright aggressive tone with lots of sheen. Add in the valve preamp on the GP12 and you can get a warmer sound still. [/quote] Fair enough question and probably as much to do with the mind-set of the user than the actual kit, but the sterotypical sound of the amp sits in the 80's. I get that you could possibly get any sound you want... and you could say many amps have very powerful tone shaping, but that is not actually what you should want, so you are left with a default sound which sits back into the 80's. Personally, I never took to the sound even back then, even though for a while it was the stand-out gear, and it took the Valve power stage to clear down the inherrent metallic sound somewhat. The sound is outdated because you don't hear anyone current... where sound is far more critical, using one, and they haven't since the early 90's when SWR/Eden took over. It may be a tad unkind, but the Status/TE is long gone. I never found the graphic subtle enough, which is always the problem when you make them as compact as possible (and also why I avoid them like the plague) For that reason, they tend not to be that subtle either. Current sounds fads are not really the domain of the local player either but I think the default sound bias of them should be as critical as the weight issue. Most people get rid of them for that reason first, whereas I'd say the reason they lost all that ground was the sound. I'm not sure a 7 band or 12 band of the type TE typically used was the way to go anyway...but I'd say Ampeg and even Boogie fell for that as well..? Maybe an example of demand leading the design and, therefore, understandable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 They key thing though, is where you start with the outdated sound thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 The Retro 800 is essentially the Trace idea, (12 band eq) built into a modern micro amp form. It works fine, and you can get anything you want from the eq...but not really the "signature" response that a lot of makers build into their preamp designs. I've also still got a TE MkIV GP11 preamp, and that too essentially has no sound of its own, as long as you ignore the pre-shape "slap switch". Its just eq, and you use it as you want. Nothing outdated about it, except the bulk 19" rack format and a bit of circuit hiss...but its also got a very effective noise gate built in, and a proper transformer DI. Its a very well designed professional unit. Now, what people did with them, thats another thing entirely.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2elliot Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1480256853' post='3182829'] Fair enough question and probably as much to do with the mind-set of the user than the actual kit, but the sterotypical sound of the amp sits in the 80's. I get that you could possibly get any sound you want... and you could say many amps have very powerful tone shaping, but that is not actually what you should want, so you are left with a default sound which sits back into the 80's. Personally, I never took to the sound even back then, even though for a while it was the stand-out gear, and it took the Valve power stage to clear down the inherrent metallic sound somewhat. The sound is outdated because you don't hear anyone current... where sound is far more critical, using one, and they haven't since the early 90's when SWR/Eden took over. It may be a tad unkind, but the Status/TE is long gone. I never found the graphic subtle enough, which is always the problem when you make them as compact as possible (and also why I avoid them like the plague) For that reason, they tend not to be that subtle either. Current sounds fads are not really the domain of the local player either but I think the default sound bias of them should be as critical as the weight issue. Most people get rid of them for that reason first, whereas I'd say the reason they lost all that ground was the sound. I'm not sure a 7 band or 12 band of the type TE typically used was the way to go anyway...but I'd say Ampeg and even Boogie fell for that as well..? Maybe an example of demand leading the design and, therefore, understandable. [/quote] What would you recommend as the 'current sound' go to head for the local player who is looking to improve on his once hip but now outdated lump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 [quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1480261043' post='3182861'] The Retro 800 is essentially the Trace idea, (12 band eq) built into a modern micro amp form. It works fine, and you can get anything you want from the eq...but not really the "signature" response that a lot of makers build into their preamp designs. I've also still got a TE MkIV GP11 preamp, and that too essentially has no sound of its own, as long as you ignore the pre-shape "slap switch". Its just eq, and you use it as you want. Nothing outdated about it, except the bulk 19" rack format and a bit of circuit hiss...but its also got a very effective noise gate built in, and a proper transformer DI. Its a very well designed professional unit. [b]Now, what people did with them, thats another thing entirely[/b].... [/quote] It is..... but also, no one is using them now. Plenty of old units stand the test of time... Aguilar and Demeter were studio pre amps from over 20 years ago, but they have transferred to today. TE had such a typical default sound that didn't... and I blame the Graphic mostly. Gtr players, who are usually far more discerning than the vast majority of bass players use old amps and maybe only the SVT comes close to that sort of thinking... but that is because the tone stage is the least important part..(IMO).... If you leave out the guy in the pub, who has a TE sound today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Its also because the hire companies have moved on - Aguilar, Fender and TC seem to have that covered.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Norman Watt Roy springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 [quote name='2elliot' timestamp='1480261867' post='3182865'] What would you recommend as the 'current sound' go to head for the local player who is looking to improve on his once hip but now outdated lump? [/quote] Wrong way to approach it, IMO. If you stray too far from your natural sound, you just go round in circles. But for starters, to get a good sound, you need your 'sound' to just amp up what your bass in your hands sounds like. That is not such an easy thing to do and it is the reason why it is hard, or should be, to sound like your gave player. I'd take a sound/player I liked and go for style and nuance and just have that as an influence rather than clone it. There is a lot of talk here about uncoloured sound, when all you need is a complimentary bias. Without knowing what you are trying to achieve, it is hard to say. What do you think is wrong? First off...you have to hear something to know where you want to go. A lot of bass players buy what their fave bass player uses and never get further than that. I would offer that there were/are defintive match ups... TE and Status. Jazz and SWR P and Ampeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 [quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1480262167' post='3182870'] Its also because the hire companies have moved on - Aguilar, Fender and TC seem to have that covered.... [/quote] I'd say Aguilar, Ampeg and Ashdown are the most agressive stage rigs here, in terms of their placement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Doug Wimbish still uses Trace Elliot if he can... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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