First Attempts At Recording - Any Good?

[4stringslow]

OK, this is a bit daunting but here goes: https://soundcloud.com/user-571962751/thebadmen-middlemen-mwmix2

This is our first serious attempt at recording and I'm doing the production (gulp!). It was recorded all together in one take but the lead vocal was subsequently replaced with a separate recording using a vocal booth. BVs were also recorded separately but otherwise there are no overdubs (as yet).

I'm finding it pretty hard to get a single mix to work well across a range of playback systems, from phones to PCs to in-car systems and hifi systems - any 'secret tips' for this?

Constructive criticism welcomed.

[BassBus]

It certainly has a great live feel to it. I don't know if you have access to high and low pass filters in your recording system. It might be worth your while playing around with them to separate the guitars a bit. Keep that live feel though. You can really hear the room. Good stuff for a first effort.

[4stringslow]

Thanks for the comments. My bass was DI'd but everything else was close miked so there's a reasonable amount of spill on the recorded tracks, which I guess contributes to a 'live' sound. I've playing around with filter and eq plug-ins to try to reduce the 'frequency spill' for each recorded track but am only really following my ears rather than really knowing why I'm doing. I think I now know about 'listening fatigue' though and feel that the more time I spend on it the less I know about it all. Knowing when to stop must be a key skill and my admiration for pro producers has greatly increased - It ain't easy!!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1456011154' post='2984584']...
Constructive criticism welcomed.
[/quote]

Firstly, the compliments (you'll understand why shortly...). An excellent composition, sung with poise and confidence, brisk playing from all (yes, even the bass...); it's obvious that you all know how to play together. it really 'gels' nicely.
Now, about the recording... I don't think you'll ever get this to sound crisp whilst you're all playing the same thing at the same time. It's not a question of filtering or bleed; there's just too much going on in the same space all through. I'd either go for a much more sober arrangement, and wind back the block chords and strumming to really distance spaces, or go for a thick, full sound, which is not far from where you are with the current mix. The drums are too muffled, in general, as is the bass.
If this is multi-tracked, try playing back just the bass and drums, and get them to sound present, non-aggressive and balanced. If there's a problem with that, then there's a problem with the stems, and new 'takes' will be required. Once the bass-drums are up and running, add in the chords, one instrument at a time, trying to keep them from intruding into the bass-drums established sonic zone. For my money, it shouldn't take more than about half a teaspoonful to get them working, audible, but behind the bass-drums. Pan quite hard, if necessary. When all the rhythm instruments are in place, put in the bv's, then the lead vocal right in the front. I'd personally put the harmonica in last of all, and much more sparingly, keeping the current arrangement for a more whole-hearted 'live' version, where more 'stops' can be pulled.
There, that's my tuppence-worth, but only from a couple of listen-throughs, though, so not deeply studied. Great stuff, well done to all involved. What you have there is not so easy to come by, and not so easy to get across on all media, either, as you've found..! Don't go for 'mastering' yet; get it to sound good through studio monitors first. Once that's done, mastering is another, separate, 'black art'.
Hope this helps.

[cheddatom]

Good tips from Dad there. The bass is almost inaudible and the drums are quite muffled, so if you get them right first you'll be on the right track. The whole thing just needs a bit more "space". I'd cut the guitar out or way down for sections. Even if the guitar amp is bleeding on the drum mics it'll still sound better.

[4stringslow]

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I entirely agree about the 'crispness' (lack of) but have been struggling with how to improve it. I'll start a new mix as Dad suggests, although it' s'more or less how I tried to build this version. I'm a little surprised, Cheddatom, that you thought the bass was almost inaudible - I wonder how you were listening to it? My problem is that it sounds ok on my monitors but less so on my Hifi (which I can fix with some bass boost) and when I played it through my smartTV the bass seemed too prevalent - probably because I have a soundbar + subwoofer. Perhaps if I follow Dad's advice to 'crispen' things up that sort of issue may go away somewhat?

As for the rhythm guitar, I did reduce it during the guitar solo and it made quite a difference so perhaps I should explore that a bit more. One thing I'm not really happy about is that the rhythm chords are played on acoustic through an amp that had the chorus effect switched on, which I don't think really works. I could have easily added some chorus, if necessary, but I don't think I can remove it so am stuck with it.

Still, I'm learning loads (mainly how hard it is!) and enjoying the process (so far!)

Thanks again for the comments.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1456138999' post='2985691']...My problem is that it sounds ok on my monitors...
[/quote]

Choose something for monitoring and keep it, judging all your mixing exclusively through that. How to choose the monitor system..? Play something that you know and like (any music that you'd like to aspire to; preferably in the same vein as your piece...),and go with what sounds best to you. It's more than useful, almost essential, to have reference music to use for comparison to your mix. Not to copy it, but to help home in on the elements that make up the overall sound. Don't mess about with EQ on the mixing/reference system; keep it as 'flat' as possible, once you're happy with the sound of the reference music (using several pieces of music is good, too...).
I listened through my mixing headphones, which I'm quite accustomed to, and found the bass quite definitely lacking in presence (not played badly; quite the opposite...) in the mix. Always a matter of taste, of course, and musical direction, but well down on similarly-styled pieces, in my view. In the end, though, it's your view that counts much more..!
We have had, in the recent past, mixing Challenges, in which the raw stems are made available for all to have a go at. Maybe you could consider such a move, if there's nothing commercially compromising in putting up the stems..? It could bring up some useful practises, maybe..? Just a thought...
Happy hunting, in any case.

[cheddatom]

I guess the tone of bass is too bassy, so on any system lacking bass you can't really hear it, and on any system with plenty of bass you just get the boominess. More mids might help.

For the drums, some compression, and then maybe a boost at 5KHz or so for more presence. I always like a cut somewhere between 500 and 900Hz on the full kit

[Skol303]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1456141116' post='2985739']
Choose something for monitoring and keep it, judging all your mixing exclusively through that. How to choose the monitor system..? Play something that you know and like (any music that you'd like to aspire to; preferably in the same vein as your piece...),and go with what sounds best to you. It's more than useful, almost essential, to have reference music to use for comparison to your mix.
[/quote]

^ [i]Sooo[/i] this!

Reference material is essential and once you have a good stock of reference tracks that you're familiar with, you can mix on pretty much any set up.

[4stringslow]

Interesting point. I rarely play any commercial stuff through my DAW monitoring system so perhaps I should spend a few hours doing just that to 'tune in' my ears?

[4stringslow]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1456142528' post='2985754']
I guess the tone of bass is too bassy, so on any system lacking bass you can't really hear it, and on any system with plenty of bass you just get the boominess. More mids might help.
[/quote]

That makes some sense to me. I try to eq each individual instrument to get it sounding as good as I can ( to my cloth ears) before even starting to mix, but I'll revisit this and try cutting back on the low end and boosting the miss a bit.


[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1456142528' post='2985754']
For the drums, some compression, and then maybe a boost at 5KHz or so for more presence. I always like a cut somewhere between 500 and 900Hz on the full kit
[/quote]

Likewise, I'll give this a try. Thanks for the suggestions.