Playing stuff wrong

[MrDaveTheBass]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1456611696' post='2990837']
The other thing that bugs me is that singer consistently gets the words wrong. So if I'm doing BVs I have to sing them wrong as well otherwise it sounds weird. I couldn't bring myself to sing 'savilate' instead of 'salivate' though. (It's in the lyrics to 'Bitch' in case you're wondering)
[/quote]

Does he Savilate like a Pavlova dog?

[chris_b]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1456828307' post='2992545']
Ah, don't assume that the artist knows how it's supposed to go Seriously - the recorded performance may have been improvised, yet gone on to be definitive in the eyes (and ears) of the audience, so that's 'how it goes'.
[/quote]

I think that sums up Maggie May. A bottle of brandy later and that's how every bass player is supposed to play it, cock ups and all!

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1456819192' post='2992419']


With a basic bass line, the bass steers the whole song. It has a profound effect on the sound of the chords. You can change the inversion depending on your note choice. You can change the mood by playing an ascending line to make it uplifting or a descending line to make it more sad. We play harmony as well as bass.

By legato, I'm thinking probably more single long notes that ring under a whole melody line. Maybe legato is the wrong word.
[/quote]
It's kind of music theory 101 and legato is the wrong word but I get what you mean now!

[acidbass]

There's a band in my locality who play the brass break in Sir Duke completely wrong and it really grinds my gears! Whole sections missing or wrong. The problem there is that the guitar player has taught the other (uninterested) musicians how to play the wrong line. Absolute sacrilege!

[ras52]

This thread prompted me to revisit the Bauhaus version of Ziggy Stardust. Ugh.

[Jebo1]

I can't get worked up by a single note choice in a Pink Floyd live recording, but having done some work with Genesis fans, I know it can make a lot of difference!

My view is to learn the original properly, and then you can improvise if needed. And also reflect on what you're doing - if you've been playing it for a long time, take a listen to the original again and leave the bass in the case: if you've got a good enough ear you'll be able to play along mentally anyway.

[Woodinblack]

Obviously it makes more of a difference if you are a tribute act, where you sort of have to get the whole thing spot on, even if the group themselves never do.

I saw a guns and roses tribute once, they came on at the right time, did more than 3 songs, didn't cock anything up and went off without swearing at the audience. How the hell can you call that a tribute group?

[tauzero]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1456830905' post='2992576'] I'm now worried that I will now have to buy a 5-string before I'm allowed to play the live version of Comfortably Numb to an audience. [/quote]

But surely this must be the definitive live version:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4i8tzFbTAk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4i8tzFbTAk[/url]

[JTUK]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1456775631' post='2992217']
I still object to this notion that, because it's different to a supposed 'original', it's only down to laziness or bad musicianship.............
[/quote]

I'd agree.............. the copy band maybe, play it or deliver it better, within context.
I'm only concerned it works and I'd say the songs generally do or we need to sensible enough to drop the song.

I think it depends who you have on the gig... and what they can bring to the party.

Edited March 2, 2016 by JTUK

[TimR]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1456942468' post='2993873']


But surely this must be the definitive live version:

...
[/quote]

Superb.

Only problem now is I'm going to have to learn how to use a pick.

[chris_b]

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1456942468' post='2993873']
But surely this must be the definitive live version:
[/quote]

Why?

It's very good but so was the 94 video (with that note!), as was the stunning version Dave Gilmour played at the Albert Hall last year.

[drTStingray]

I think this is a very complex subject.

Many bass parts have hooks in them that cleverly form part of the allure of the song. If you don't play them you can lose part of the effect - as previously stated, this may be something quite complex (listen to the elaborate bass fills in Wake Me Up Before You Go (Go) by Wham) or something as simple as playing the upper octave of a 5th rather than the lower one played on the previous seven patterns, on the last bass pattern before entering a chorus, middle eight or even instrument solo.

If you don't play them the song loses, sometimes a minor element, sometimes a major one.

I'm as guilty as anyone - I do quite a lot of depping and people are in the habit of asking me to cover, then at the last minute saying, for instance, oh by the way we've added Kid Charlemaine by Steely Dan (usually something much simpler but you get the drift) to the set....... which I then listen to and work out but don't have time to do it thoroughly!! In other instances I just don't pick up the nuances until I've listened very carefully several times.

So I end up approximating, or possibly interpreting (playing additional fills I've made up) sometimes. Now there's approximating and approximating - I was once in the habit of playing with a jamming band which was good fun, often doing standards, which taught me a lot but one day they played Lovely Day by Bill Withers - the guy who led the band asked me why I played that strange set of notes in the verses - insisting that their incorrect and simplistic version was copied from sheet music - well if it was, the sheet music was not based on the original!!! I then realised this band did not actually learn songs but made them up often from memory and ranged from fairly close to horrendously inaccurate!! Whether more than a couple of people in the audience would have noticed is a debatable point.

I think there are elements of laziness, interpretation or simple errors across cover music - even in tribute bands. If you think the example of Pink Floyd discussed is anal, try playing in a Cliff and the Shadows tribute (I don't any longer) - it was good fun but rather worrying having the accuracy of one's playing scrutinised not only by bass players, but drummers, singers and horror of horrors, guitarists or even non musician aficionados.

I saw Pino interviewed once and talking about his fabulous work with the Who, he was saying he noticed in one part of a specific song the air bass players in the crowd were playing high notes - so he re listened to the original and picked up something he'd missed - so it happens to world greats as well as mere mortals!

And finally, does anyone else play the bass balls up in Jean Genie - I always do and it sounds wrong any other way to me!!

I'm now a firm believer that you should play what you and the band are happy with, and not get too hung up. It may be as or even more important to get the groove, feel and instrument interaction to work rather than an exact note for note replica - something that really dawned on me during my foray into the Cliff and the Shads scene. Some people strive for complete accuracy but lost any shred of excitement in their playing in so doing.

Edited March 3, 2016 by drTStingray

[chris_b]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1456966062' post='2994162']
And finally, does anyone else play the bass balls up in Jean Genie - I always do and it sounds wrong any other way to me!!
[/quote]
I've only played this once and I didn't include the mistake. Sounded much better to me.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1456966555' post='2994164']

I've only played this once and I didn't include the mistake. Sounded much better to me.
[/quote]

Apparently it was Mr Bowie's decision to keep it on the recording, allegedly because he thought it sounded good (to the annoyance of the bass player). I did tend to play it, along with the high note 16ths in the solos, which all signal changes on the original - needless to say predicting when the soloists would finish required clairvoyance rather than musical skill so there was mixed success!!

Edited March 3, 2016 by drTStingray

[TimR]

@DrTStingray.

I remember being in one of the bass shops in London when a guy came in and asked for a specific model of Fender, year, colour etc. For a one off gig with a Shadows tribute act.

All very odd.

Especially when with the Pink Floyd example we're talking about it is one note played 4 times in the song.

[chris_b]

That's explained by "Shadows tribute".

I know a band who have decided to move from playing Cream covers to becoming a Cream tribute. This seems to have been achieved by just buying all the right gear. For me (and I suspect the audience) there is no difference except they are each several thousand pounds the poorer.

It's interesting to see what successful bands do when they replace an original member. Nile Rogers doesn't require Jerry Barnes to play the exact BE bass parts, Craig Fuller didn't try to copy Lowell George when Little Feat reformed and gong right back to when Peter Green joined John Mayall, he didn't play any Clapton lines at all.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1457007623' post='2994383']
That's explained by "Shadows tribute".

I know a band who have decided to move from playing Cream covers to becoming a Cream tribute. This seems to have been achieved by just buying all the right gear. For me (and I suspect the audience) there is no difference except they are each several thousand pounds the poorer.

It's interesting to see what successful bands do when they replace an original member. Nile Rogers doesn't require Jerry Barnes to play the exact BE bass parts, Craig Fuller didn't try to copy Lowell George when Little Feat reformed and gong right back to when Peter Green joined John Mayall, he didn't play any Clapton lines at all.
[/quote]

It's quite strange also that the Shadows guys could be seen with a range of guitars from Hank Marvin signature, to Custom Shop to the lower priced Mexican etc. Seemingly the idea of an 'authentic' guitar was simply too much extravagance for some of the thrifty minded.

My own was totally unauthentic - a coral red Stingray played through a Mark Bass set up - some of the actual ex Shadows bass players don't use authentic amps or guitars - even Hank Marvin doesn't/ didn't use an authentic amp (boutique rather than an AC 30.

[tauzero]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1456965942' post='2994160']
Why?

It's very good but so was the 94 video (with that note!), as was the stunning version Dave Gilmour played at the Albert Hall last year.
[/quote]

Because it was the original line-up reunited. I'm not saying that the other versions aren't good, it's that the musicians who originally created the parts were doing it once more.