The Musiclocker ebay shop nr Derby (-ve experience)

[Bass is the place]

So today I embarked on a 2 hour round trip to the Derbyshire Dales to view this beauty that I spotted on Ebay.
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121896585620?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/121896585620?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT[/url]

I’m sure you’ll agree, nicely presented with care and so the seller’s description filled me with enough confidence to go and take a closer look.

Like most Fender players, I’ve had experiences of trying both good and bad instruments from the 65 -70’s period so I would NEVER buy blind, especially off Ebay.
The thing is, I really fancy a YOB Fender Precision, sunburst with a rosewood board, not bothered if road worn just as original as I can get.
I’ve tried a few 73s over the last few months and not found a good one yet, they have either have battered necks, routed J pickups, refinished/stripped or too heavy (4.5kg+ is too much for my constitution).

So at 8.8lbs I was excited to check this one out even though with no case, imo the price was towards the ceiling of the book price – but if it was a good player (and it did look good!), I would have probably paid close the £2,200 asking price, after all the seller’s Ebay listing invited near offers. I was feeling confident that I might get a deal done.

After making contact with the seller I realised that he and his business partner were in fact more of a trader set up. This didn’t put me off though, I thought well, might be more markup on price but perhaps they had access to some good stock in the area, good rep, fair enough.
So after an hour’s drive I arrive at the so called [url="http://themusiclocker.co.uk/"]http://themusiclocker.co.uk/[/url] to a slightly frosty, certainly unwelcome reception by one of the proprietors called Martin. No pleasantries, no offer of a brew, common courtesy etc even though I might be ready to hand over 2k to the guy! Ah well, I was here to see that bass – so not too bothered to be honest.
So this shop was actually a room in Martin’s house, which was like a converted barn jam full of vintage amps, speakers, stopboxes, and guitars. The Precision I went to see was out on show, for me to behold. I noticed that it was the only bass I could see in the room. There were a few guitars though.
I also could see there was no bass amp to plug in to, so Martin plugged the bass in to a Marshall JC900 or something similar – which was broken. So he proceeded to pull out a Vox AC30 for me to plug in to. While this was going on I’d already picked up the bass and acoustically made an assessment and quickly realised that sadly this bass was a duffer! Sigh.
How disappointing. It boasted new strings (felts like 40s of an unidentifiable brand) but there was fret buzz and dead spots all over the place. I’m not a technician so couldn’t be sure if there was enough neck relief but think the frets appeared to have been dressed very low and looked uneven. Not, sure but it played and sounded awful, even worse plugin to the AC30. Martin seemed to know that particular bass’ history and explained that after 1977 it had seen little action. This actually makes sense because it didn’t feel like it had been played or cared for somehow –Martin couldn’t explain why the back of the neck looked like it had been re lacquered, I then started to wonder about the authenticity of the bass, the ash trays look very shinny and the bridge cover had a foam mute attached in it – is that right for the era? Foam mute? It didn’t look very old anyway– the foam mutes on my 90s Stingray have all but crumbled away.
I thought to myself £2200 for this!! But Martin then asked me what I thought. Bizarrely, he seemed surprised that I didn’t think it was good, I justified my opinion by telling him I was a pro player and with 30+ years of experience (which I am) and I knew what I was talking about (which most of the time I do!) . When I asked Martin if he was a player he said “no, I’m a business man”. Hmm.
I explained to him that I was irked, that he was asking this kind of money for an instrument that was in my opinion unplayable and yet he seemed to think that it was acceptable for a potential buyer to be impressed enough to part with over 2K then go away and “get it set up, how they want it”. To which I replied “you mean, set up so it’s actually playable!” If I was selling a guitar on ebay in this state I would be embarrassed to present this. And this seller posed as an effing music shop with some kind of reputation!! Martin retaliated by accusing me of trying it on, in an effort to get it cheap… In a way I can see how he might have thought that because I did give it a second look to see if it could be sorted in any way as it was pretty and I had driven a long way. Either way I took exception to that comment and promptly left.

So today’s lesson: Not to venture any distance to view instruments from ebay sellers including the ones under the guise of music stores, without asking straight questions about the instruments basic playing condition first!

The Music Locker – One to avoid imo, they obviously don’t care about their reputation and unsurprisingly their ebay feedback isn’t 100% either.
I think It’s a sad indictment that with the ebay virtual shop window that you can have an experience like this. I would never expect this scenario visiting The Gallery, Bassdirect, etc, not to mention the mainstay basschat members who I have never had any negative buying or selling experiences with either . Sure a bass neck might suit one player or another – but to ask for a hefty price of an unplayable instrument is something else.
I’d be interested to know folks’ opinions about prices of P basses from this era. Is £2200 north of Watford but an ok price if all original with/without case. Any thoughts please?

[gary mac]

Sounds like a miserable experience

I had spotted this one on Ebay.

Prices vary, I would pay that sort of money for a good example. For me, that would have to be all original, everything functioning as it should and with the original case, also in good condition.

Put it down to experience and keep on looking, there are some lovely early 70's ones out there. Hope you find the one.

[Mykesbass]

Although fairly good with Ebay feedback, if you do read the one negative and two neutral and add those to your tale a picture starts to emerge (esp the comment about trying to get money off)!

[Doctor J]

Sadly, a lot of people seem hellbent on getting an old bass, rather than a great bass, so it's not surprising that any old piece of crap will command what is, in the cold light of day, an absurd amount of money for a mass produced instrument. It's to your credit that you don't seem blinded by vintage fever and are holding out for a properly good instrument. I despair when I think of mates who have sold fantastic contemporary instruments to raise the money for something old and then show up with something no better in quality, tone or playability than a low to mid import instrument and then ask "what do you think?".

They know this bass will sell at or near that price, sooner or later, so they don't need to take care of the customer. This is the age we live in, demand outweighs supply and old sells.

[Manton Customs]

I don't want to sound like I'm condoning his attitude in any way as it sounds like even forgetting the state of the bass it was not a pleasant experience and the setup issues should have course been mentioned. However, I would say that if you find yourself in a similar situation again that the setup and fret condition is not really a big deal when looking at a bass of this price, both can be addressed very easily and it would not cost much to do so. Looking at the Ebay listing the frets seem to have plenty of life left in them and could stand a level and re crown easily if necessary. So it could have been a case of negotiating a setup fee and fretwork into the deal.

When looking at basses like this, it's the originality and condition that are key and not the fact if it's a good player or not....any bass can be made to play well as long as there is not something like a twisted neck and even this can be addressed. Obviously though if the weight or neck profile did not suit you then it's not for you, it also sounds like there could have been originality issues too, such as the lacquer on the neck, which again should have been mentioned.

I'm not debating on the side of the seller, just thought the info may perhaps be useful, if not tell me to shut up .

Edited February 29, 2016 by Manton Customs

[Beedster]

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1456754048' post='2991904']
I don't want to sound like I'm condoning his attitude in any way as it sounds like even forgetting the state of the bass it was not a pleasant experience and the setup issues should have course been mentioned. However, I would say that if you find yourself in a similar situation again that the setup and fret condition is not really a big deal when looking at a bass of this price, both can be addressed very easily and it would not cost much to do so. Looking at the Ebay listing the frets seem to have plenty of life left in them and could stand a level and re crown easily if necessary. So it could have been a case of negotiating a setup fee and fretwork into the deal.

When looking at basses like this, it's the originality and condition that are key and not the fact if it's a good player or not....any bass can be made to play well as long as there is not something like a twisted neck and even this can be addressed. Obviously though if the weight or neck profile did not suit you then it's not for you, it also sounds like there could have been originality issues too, such as the lacquer on the neck, which again should have been mentioned.

I'm not debating on the side of the seller, just thought the info may perhaps be useful, if not tell me to shut up .
[/quote]

Spot on, basses are rarely inherently bad players, just very often badly set up and/or maintained. Buying basses from the era in question or earlier requires as much the eye of the antique dealer as that of a musician. If you're spending that much on a vintage instrument the reality is that authenticity and originality and not playability are your first concerns, as neither can be easily/cheaply corrected. Playability is 99% of the time an easy fix, and even in the 1% in which is isn't - and assuming the purchase price for the bass in question justifies it - even a warped neck can be sorted.

[Geek99]

Expensive but looks alright to me, there's cheaper examples to be had on basschat though

[Beedster]

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1456754048' post='2991904']
I don't want to sound like I'm condoning his attitude in any way as it sounds like even forgetting the state of the bass it was not a pleasant experience and the setup issues should have course been mentioned. However, I would say that if you find yourself in a similar situation again that the setup and fret condition is not really a big deal when looking at a bass of this price, both can be addressed very easily and it would not cost much to do so. Looking at the Ebay listing the frets seem to have plenty of life left in them and could stand a level and re crown easily if necessary. So it could have been a case of negotiating a setup fee and fretwork into the deal.

When looking at basses like this, it's the originality and condition that are key and not the fact if it's a good player or not....any bass can be made to play well as long as there is not something like a twisted neck and even this can be addressed. Obviously though if the weight or neck profile did not suit you then it's not for you, it also sounds like there could have been originality issues too, such as the lacquer on the neck, which again should have been mentioned.

I'm not debating on the side of the seller, just thought the info may perhaps be useful, if not tell me to shut up .
[/quote]
[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1456756173' post='2991915']
Spot on, basses are rarely inherently bad players, just very often badly set up and/or maintained. Buying basses from the era in question or earlier requires as much the eye of the antique dealer as that of a musician. If you're spending that much on a vintage instrument the reality is that authenticity and originality and not playability are your first concerns, as neither can be easily/cheaply corrected. Playability is 99% of the time an easy fix, and even in the 1% in which is isn't - and assuming the purchase price for the bass in question justifies it - even a warped neck can be sorted.
[/quote]

Ha ha, just re-read my post and realised that I didn't simply support the previous one, I plagiarised it completely

[Bass is the place]

Thanks for the comments all. It's really helpful to get some opinions on this. I agree with the comments regarding buying with the provision of getting the instrument setup. Over the years I have bought several basses blind from ebay knowing that I would need to spend extra on setups, pickup rewinding or complete re-frets etc because in each case the seller had been as candid as possible about the playing condition and the basses were the right price. To this date, ive never been ripped off or left feeling cheated. So what annoyed me in this case was that it this bass was imo priced top dollar and unplayable - not just a little fret buzz either - the seller didn't mention any of this in the advert. Imagine if i'd placed a bid without viewing.
I recall a friend of mine once had a Jazz bass 73/74? that had a twist to the neck. He ended up fitting an all parts neck because the truss rod wouldn't work. So alarm bells were ringing with this one.
As I said, I still gave the bass a second look and If the seller had been more amenable and I might have asked to buy on approval at a lower price. (pay, with a cooling off period) so I could take it to a professional luthier and Fender expert to give it the once over. I bought a 120 year old upright recently and bought on approval. In the end though, I thought it best to walk way.

[Bass is the place]

[quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1456739800' post='2991776']
Sadly, a lot of people seem hellbent on getting an old bass, rather than a great bass, so it's not surprising that any old piece of crap will command what is, in the cold light of day, an absurd amount of money for a mass produced instrument. It's to your credit that you don't seem blinded by vintage fever and are holding out for a properly good instrument. I despair when I think of mates who have sold fantastic contemporary instruments to raise the money for something old and then show up with something no better in quality, tone or playability than a low to mid import instrument and then ask "what do you think?".

They know this bass will sell at or near that price, sooner or later, so they don't need to take care of the customer. This is the age we live in, demand outweighs supply and old sells.
[/quote] I have a stable of basses some new, vintage and one or two that I bought from new that are now considered vintage! The thing i look for in a bass is character, plenty of new instruments have this, but also in my experience a lot of the older instruments do too and I like the feel and sound of a bass that's been well played - it's not a trend thing, they are just more unique. For me its not necessarily about how easy it is to play either - the inadequacies of an instrument can help inspire me to play in a certain way. That said, it does need to work!, ie no choking frets, straight neck etc. Of course these issues can be sorted, but it all boils down to price and what the instrument is worth to me.

With this situation I am specifically looking for an early 70s P bass, because I like the necks on them. Aesthetically I like the 70's Fender sunburst. Rosewood board, because the P bass I already have has a Mable board. It might seem a bit daft but i would like a 73 because its my year of birth.

I totally agree with your point below tho -
"They know this bass will sell at or near that price, sooner or later, so they don't need to take care of the customer. This is the age we live in, demand outweighs supply and old sells."

Edited February 29, 2016 by Bass is the place

[Manton Customs]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1456762484' post='2991978']
Ha ha, just re-read my post and realised that I didn't simply support the previous one, I plagiarised it completely
[/quote]

No worries, great minds.....(get copied ) joking of course.

Just some more friendly advice to the OP, perhaps when you next go to see a bass of this value and vintage with the intention of buying maybe ask your local tech/luthier or even a knowledgeable friend to come with you. He would be able to tell whats what pretty quickly and if you're reasonably friendly with him, shouldn't charge much. I've done this before for people when they aren't 100% sure and it can give them a little extra confidence. Obviously it should not have been necessary as you were expecting a well setup bass, but maybe next time .

Edited February 29, 2016 by Manton Customs

[thebassist]

" We had the guitar inspected and we can confirm, in our opinion, it is all original!"

This line is amusing. Saying it's been inspected and then stating it's all original "in our opinion".

[Bass is the place]

[quote name='thebassist' timestamp='1456856309' post='2992950']
" We had the guitar inspected and we can confirm, in our opinion, it is all original!"

This line is amusing. Saying it's been inspected and then stating it's all original "in our opinion".
[/quote]

Isn't it just!

[Bass is the place]

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1456782673' post='2992313']
No worries, great minds.....(get copied ) joking of course.

Just some more friendly advice to the OP, perhaps when you next go to see a bass of this value and vintage with the intention of buying maybe ask your local tech/luthier or even a knowledgeable friend to come with you. He would be able to tell whats what pretty quickly and if you're reasonably friendly with him, shouldn't charge much. I've done this before for people when they aren't 100% sure and it can give them a little extra confidence. Obviously it should not have been necessary as you were expecting a well setup bass, but maybe next time .
[/quote] Good point but not always that practical, sometimes you have to act quickly. I suppose if you buy online from a proper store/ trader they are obliged to accept a no obligation return if the customer isnt satisfied - i.e on approval.
As I said before, I didn't expect the bass to be set up to suit me, just in playing condition with out the neck buzz.

[Beedster]

[quote name='thebassist' timestamp='1456856309' post='2992950']
" We had the guitar inspected and we can confirm, in our opinion, it is all original!"

This line is amusing. Saying it's been inspected and then stating it's all original "in our opinion".
[/quote]

He's not the first and he won't be the last. When I was looking for a pre-CBS Precision as few years back, I was amazed/shocked at how many 'respected' dealers in Denmark St and the like would use phrases such as 'in our opinion', and when pushed would always pull back from using terms such as 'certain'. What he's indicating above is probably as much legalese as anything else, but it's just further evidence of the problems of buying and selling old basses.