Lightweight amp head for upright and electric - recommend!

[andyjevans]

Need a lightweight amp head for fretless and upright - Underwood pickup. I have a 1x15 Eminence cab. Play mostly jazz. Smaller venues.

Phoned around dealers and they are selling mostly Markbass LM3 and Tonehammer 350/500. Listened to sound samples on YT and the EBS sounded best to me - could be Reidmar or HD350 S/H. I also see a lot of recommendations for GK gear and some like Eden. Feel free to recommend other options.

The Underwood pickup needs to work into 1 Meg ohm input. HD350 is 1 Meg, Reirmar 250 is 2 Meg. Nice.

Ideas and experiences most welcome!

[Marty Forrer]

What dealers are mostly selling is of little importance. Flavour of the month etc, etc. What sounds best to you is best for you. Because I work in the industry, I have played most brands and models, and GK does it for me, also Phil Jones Bass (PJB) and Walter Woods. Why? Because I can get a great sound with no preamp and with tone knobs set flat at 12 o'clock. Eden, SWR, Trace, Ampeg, Ashdown, Fender, Peavey, all capable of great sounds but with a lot of knob-twiddling, and some definitely required a preamp. EBS I have no experience of, likewise TC. All this is just what works for me. BTW, I mainly play upright bass.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Marty Forrer

[Marc S]

I've been in exactly the same position as you. I've been trying to get as small and lightweight an option as possible, and for my rig to be used for both Bass guitar and upright - sometimes for just BG, sometimes DB, and sometimes suitable for both. With the emphasis on a small size rig, and being as light and portable as possible, as I got tired of lugging larger cabs and combos up stairs, and 300 yards from the car park....

However, it's not really that easy - as I've found out. Finding a head with dual inputs is tricky. I now have a Euphonic Audio EA Micro 550W head. it's really tiny, and ultra lightweight. I couldn't believe how small & light. Yes, it's got 2 separately controlled inputs, BUT I find it's OK, not brilliant. It rather lacks a little "colour" IMO. Yes, you can EQ it, but it still sounds a bit "flat" to my ear....
Perhaps a pre-amp might help improve matters

The amp I mainly use for gigs with BG is a TC Electronic 550. I have to say, I'm quite pleased with this head. It's quite small, and fairly light and compact. But of course, it only has 1 input - so a mini mixer or splitter & pre-amp would be needed for gigs with both BG and DB

Re speakers, I've found that using 15" speakers to be rather problematic, esp with DB. I found the sound rather "boomy" and not well defined at the bottom end. Some venues were OK, others not so, and difficult to get the EQ right, without loosing that definition.
For me, I've found my Phil Jones 4x5 Piranha cab to be the best for gigs where I'm doubling up. More definition at the lower end, and less boominess, or at least it's been far easier to EQ that out.... One prob I've found with the PJ cab though - if it's on the floor, or not tilted upwards, I sometimes can't hear it if I'm stood right in front of it.

I also bought a Bareface One 10 cab, for it's tiny size, incredible light weight and sheer portability. However, that too is a little flat and colourless, and takes some EQ'ing to get a decent sound. It's especially flat with the EA micro head - I just can't get the tone I want either with BG or DB... I also have an Epifani 1x10 cab, and this I feel is rather more colourful than the BF cab. It's quite a bit larger and heavier than the BF, but rather better tonally. Using both 1x10's together at a recent gig was pretty good, and it's OK for medium sized gigs, but I'm not sure it would cope at large venues

Another shout here for Markbass though. I recently sold my CMD 102P combo. It sounded great with BG and better with DB than I'd ever have thought. I missed it really, and I recently picked up a second-hand 102 Traveller cab. Trying this with BG (so far) is a huge improvement - it's warm tones, depth and definition are superb. Not tried it loud, with my DB yet, but I'm looking forward to doing so soon.

Hope this rather waffling answer is of at least some use!
But good luck, and let us know what you find

Edited March 1, 2016 by Marc S

[andyjevans]

Thanks guys. I think the big issue for upright will be what goes with the Underwood pickup. It's a piezo that fits in the bridge. An older model - dates from the 70s in my case.

http://www.underwoodpickups.com/

It used to sound OK into my old Selmer Treble 'n Bass tube amp. I'm rebuilding that at the moment so it's out of commission. But I'd like something lighter anyway. For the cabinet, it has a removable front and I could replace the old Eminence 15" with an Eminence Neo 12". All that's negotiable. So still leaves me with a puzzle for a lightweight bass amp.

I've been researching the bass forums for ideas and asking the UK dealers. BassDirect just says "come into the shop", period, so no idea there unless I go to Warwick. I managed to get the owner to voice a preference for Tecamp and Genzler Magellan, but it was hard work getting any useful information other than what he volunteered about his life story of years and years of being a top engineer and sorting out famous players.

Other dealers recommend Markbass mostly, and sometimes Eden. They differ on Tonehammer. They steer me away from Fender Rumble, Orange and Ashdown as too rocky/grungey and TC and EBS as too clean. I have to say EBS sound samples are attractive on YT but dealers don't seem to like the sound much.

From the US players there's always lots of recommendations for GK stuff.

So still at preliminary research stage - need to know what would go on a short list and what's not worth bothering much about.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

What amps have you tried your pickup with?

I'm no expert in amps or amplifying upright, but I recently bought an inexpensive bridge wing pickup(j-tone bassmax lookalike) for my upright, and I was quite suprised to find that it worked quite happily with my ashdown mag 1x15 combo even without an impedance buffer (I was suprised that the fdeck preamp I bought had a more noticeable affect on my p-bass than the piezo on the upright). Comparing the sound of the piezo pickup direct into mixer->headphones, amp fx send->mixer->phones, mixer->fx return->speaker, and amp input->speaker, it sounds to my ear like the majority of the problems that need EQ compensation to make the sound usable are caused by the cab/driver.

When I started on upright I had a couple of lessons with a jobbing jazz pro, and he was using a realist copperhead pickup plugged straight into his markbass cmd121 combo with nothing inbetween, and swore by it, and one of the busiest upright players on the local folk/roots scene uses a piezo into fishman preamp into a Hartke HA3500 with 1x10 cab for quieter acoustic stuff and schaller mag straight into the same Hartke and a 4x10 for the louder rockabilly stuff.

Try what you can get your hands and ears on easily if your budget is restricted.

[TheRev]

The EA Doubler is designed to do exactly what you want. It takes a bit of experimenting to get the best out of it - running the master volume at 3 O'clock and then using the input gain to set the overall level seems to get the most out of the eq.
I now use my Doubler in preference to my Markbass LM2, mainly because it's tiny and light which means i can get more stuff in my gig bag.

[Marty Forrer]

Just shows.... horses for courses. I have a Barefaced One10, and I love it so much I'm going to get another. I run a P bass with flats and an upright through my GK MB800 into the Barefaced, and seldom have to touch the eq. I usually leave the tone section flat at 12 o'clock, and that's it. As with Marc S, I struggled to hear my PJB on stage when sat on the floor. The Barefaced sat flat on the floor enables me to hear myself perfectly. What the difference between the two is, I don't know. I'm going to get another little Barefaced for big gigs so I don't have to lug my "other brand" cab around. This is all my opinion, and matters little in the grand scheme of the universe...

[Jazzjames]

My Tonehammer 500 sounds great with my upright, and the eq is good at removing troublesome frequencies, if necessary. It's relatively cheap, loud, reliable, and well made.

[andyjevans]

What I'm getting so far is:
1. Use a 10" or 12" speaker with upright for rehearsals and smaller gigs
2. There's quite a range of possible amps out there for upright players - Tonehammer, Markbass, GK, Eden...
3. Using a preamp may be a good idea for a piezo pickup like the Underwood.

Are most of you guys using a preamp of some kind - if so what, and what's your experience?

[Marc S]

[quote name='andyjevans' timestamp='1456838114' post='2992702']
Other dealers recommend Markbass mostly, and sometimes Eden. They differ on Tonehammer........

[/quote]

Hi again, as I'd said in my first reply, I was surprised at how good DB sounded through my old Markbass 102 combo
Just to add to that - I've had a couple of EUB's and a couple of DB's in such a short space of time.... I have to say that the Markbass combo sounded good with all of them. So much so, that I'm thinking of getting a Markbass head at some point perhaps to replace the EA head I recently bought..... I'd definitely look into trying a Markbass head if I were you - are there any friendly BC'ers near you, who'd let you try their amp? Worth asking!

Edited March 2, 2016 by Marc S

[DBerriff]

[quote name='Marty Forrer' timestamp='1456886469' post='2993256']
Just shows.... horses for courses. I have a Barefaced One10, and I love it so much I'm going to get another. I run a P bass with flats and an upright through my GK MB800 into the Barefaced, and seldom have to touch the eq. I usually leave the tone section flat at 12 o'clock, and that's it. As with Marc S, I struggled to hear my PJB on stage when sat on the floor. The Barefaced sat flat on the floor enables me to hear myself perfectly. What the difference between the two is, I don't know. I'm going to get another little Barefaced for big gigs so I don't have to lug my "other brand" cab around. This is all my opinion, and matters little in the grand scheme of the universe...
[/quote]
Same experience except with a Tecamp Puma head. The Taste control adds a bit of clarity when I feel I need it.

[Dan Dare]

I know schlepping a DB around shops is a bit of a drag but you really need to try a few with your instrument/pickup.

[spyder]

I use a MARUSZCZYK INSTRUMENTS BassTank that has two independent channels for DB and electric.
It is clean with just enough personality to lift it from the studio / hifi camp.
Weighs 7kg, not ultra light but light enough.
Plenty of power on tap and built like a tank. Hence the name.

[Passinwind]

Is Acoustic Image a player at all in the UK market? For doubling with a real upright and fretless BG doing jazz stuff that would be by far my first choice, especially the new series with the extra EQ band.

[DBerriff]

[quote name='Passinwind' timestamp='1457059259' post='2994964']
Is Acoustic Image a player at all in the UK market? For doubling with a real upright and fretless BG doing jazz stuff that would be by far my first choice, especially the new series with the extra EQ band.
[/quote]
A good call. I had an early model which was really well made. The sound was very neutral (or HiFi if you prefer) and the EQ rather subtle, which I found ideal for my needs at that time. AI EU is based in Carlisle so that is Overwater. The prices are not bad for made in the USA heads. You have got me thinking about a new Clarus now ...