in ear monitors...for pubs?!?

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1475921229' post='3149743']


That's not an answer.

You can always hear the PA, even from behind it. When you're using IEM's you're shut off from all of the FOH so how do you maintain a balance out front through out the gig?

I'm asking the question because maybe the guys using IEM's have solved what to me seems like a show stopper, unless you have a sound man. I've not been in many bands that were able to maintain a balance using backline, but you can hear when the band and volume is going out of balance, but how do you address this with no backline and when you're cut off from the PA using IEM's.
[/quote]

You need to get into a different mind set with it, the sound check can be done by whoever in the band does it with them out front until the mix is perfect, then that's it, no fiddling! If you have a guitarist with a Marshall stack that turns up mid gig and pushes the whole volume up by the second set they need educating regardless of iem or not. If you WANT the second set a bit louder overall there's a volume slider for that.

If said guitarist wants to deafen himself that's fine he has an individual volume control to his in ears,as long as he leaves his amp volume alone the front of house will be balanced.

If you are running an ampless band all wireless you are almost in a situation of purely adjusting the volume from gig to gig and remove the need for a sound check, there's a reason pro function bands that need a good mix without a two hour sound check and without a live engineer are going in ears.


Nearly forgot, you are not shut off from it at all, you could if you wish have THE ACTUAL foh mix in your in ears, that's the exact opposite of being shut off from the foh! You can also run open ambient mics because you don't have any monitors on stage creating the dreaded feedback, digital mixer, mic out towards the rear of the room and you could even set that up as a saved mix just to the sound persons ears and listen in mid song!

Edited October 8, 2016 by stingrayPete1977

[Les]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1475921229' post='3149743']
That's not an answer.

You can always hear the PA, even from behind it. When you're using IEM's you're shut off from all of the FOH so how do you maintain a balance out front through out the gig?
[/quote]

No, it wasn't a good answer, sorry. If you have no one riding the desk out front then you're in the situation my band ( and I would imagine a lot of bands) are in. It's a soundcheck with someone out front doing the balances then it's a set and forget situation.

If people are then altering their onstage volumes that does manifest as a mix problem but in reality it's a discipline issue.

[AndrewJordan]

There seems to be a lot of good reasons here for going down the IEM route and I am seriously considering it. I guess it could also clean up our sound quite a bit with not having to run backline so loud and no monitors.

I think my one of my main worries is that it could feel a bit isolated from the crowd. We have quite a bit of between songs banter with the crowd and short of putting a mic on the crowd I am wondering how we are going to hear them? And even with a mic on em you wont be able to tell which direction a comment has come from.

[largo]

I recently got a set of the Westone AM 30 Pro's. Not cheap but not as pricey as custom moulds. These have filters that reduce "crowd/stage" volume by 12db, a bit like a good set of earplugs. Playing you get the IEM volume, but the good thing is when there's gaps in playing between songs you hear onstage & crowd. Works a treat!

[AndrewJordan]

Interesting! will have a look at those. Cheers!!

[EBS_freak]

With regards to monitoring the front of house PA - if your keyboard player's patches are correct and your guitarists boosts are correct, then your front of house should stay consistent because as your ears tires and players are tempted to turn up, it's only their own personal mix that is being impacted, not front of house. So using IEMs may actually improve your chances of a decent FOH mix when you are not running with your own foh engineer.

Edited October 10, 2016 by EBS_freak

[largo]

As we build to a rousing finale, the drummer typically hits harder & everyone digs in that bit harder & as a consequence the overall volume creeps up. On stage & FOH.

[EBS_freak]

I've posted this over in the big IEM thread -

---------> [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/205633-in-ear-monitors-help-needed/page__view__findpost__p__3152580"]IEMs at a pub gig![/url] <---------

You'll find my actual inears mix at a pub gig attached in that post.

Edited October 12, 2016 by EBS_freak

[lowland]

My band went to in-ears recently, it's been great for all the usual reasons.

For me on bass, IEMs are wired and driven by a Behringer Powerplay P1 headphone amp; I have that on a a mic stand (there's an adaptor on the bottom of the P1) rather than being attached to my belt for freedom from the cabling. I still have an amp and cab on stage, albeit much quieter than previously as I'm currently using it only for a sensation of moving air to back up the in-ear sound - as I get more confident in time I may abandon amplification and send the Zoom B3 to the PA only.

IEM-wise, I have JH Audio JH11s via The Custom IEM Company - thanks for recommending them in the other thread, EBS freak.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='lowland' timestamp='1476269235' post='3152819']
IEM-wise, I have JH Audio JH11s via The Custom IEM Company - thanks for recommending them in the other thread, EBS freak.
[/quote]

Great choice of inears! I think I need to start claiming commission soon!

[mcnach]

I'm completely ignorant about this... so excuse me if my question makes no sense

Would it be unrealistic for just one band member to go IEM?
As in... this bass player here
Would it be possible to invest on something that I can carry with me and give to the soundguy to provide me with my own mix in my IEM earphones?

I don't think my band is ready/willing to move all to IEM, and I play in several bands. If there's a relatively uncomplicated way that I can be independently IEM'd wherever I go, I think I and my ears would love that.

[lowland]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1476269472' post='3152822']
Great choice of inears! I think I need to start claiming commission soon!
[/quote]

For sure :-)

Paul at CIEMC was great, and enabled me to audition a few sets to make a choice - I brought an iPod with some music I know well to run them.

I'm a mastering engineer by day so fairly fussy about sound, and what impressed me about the JH11s was their very decent frequency response/resolution with no lack of lows, and although they're not exactly cheap they sounded better, or more usable for the purpose, to me than a set costing a couple of hundred quid more.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1476270232' post='3152830']... give to the soundguy to provide me with my own mix in my IEM earphones?...
[/quote]

That would depend, amongst other factors, of there being a monitor channel free for this. Modern digital desks usually have enough monitor outputs, but many traditional desks have only 2 for monitors; maybe 4, and they may all be used, in which case you'd have to share a mix with others. Just a thought.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1476270743' post='3152836']
That would depend, amongst other factors, of there being a monitor channel free for this. Modern digital desks usually have enough monitor outputs, but many traditional desks have only 2 for monitors; maybe 4, and they may all be used, in which case you'd have to share a mix with others. Just a thought.
[/quote]

Most places I play have digital desks, and for others, I don't mind sharing a mix: it can often be better than what I get without the headphones, I'm sure.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='lowland' timestamp='1476270283' post='3152832']
For sure :-)

Paul at CIEMC was great, and enabled me to audition a few sets to make a choice - I brought an iPod with some music I know well to run them.

I'm a mastering engineer by day so fairly fussy about sound, and what impressed me about the JH11s was their very decent frequency response/resolution with no lack of lows, and although they're not exactly cheap they sounded better, or more usable for the purpose, to me than a set costing a couple of hundred quid more.
[/quote]

Yes - the dual lows really help those balanced armatures reach the lows you'd typically find in dynamics. Their quad driver stuff is pretty impressive too - they get right into the super highs!

[JamieMillsBass]

As someone who's gone from no IEMs to IEMs. I can 100% vouch for IEM's. I would never go back. If I ever join another band that doesn't use them I'd definitely work my own setup in and wouldn't care if I'm the only one using them. They are so much better in so many ways than floor monitors.

I still have my amp on stage for stage volume, but hear everything via in ears.

[EBS_freak]

I'm in the same position - would never go back either. Fortunately I'm in the position where I have have a rack full of wireless gear and the ability to further connect people with a wired connection too. I would be pretty much ramming IEMs down their throat!

Being able to hear everything on a gig with no compromise is too much to give up!

[DaytonaRik]

I love my IEMs but do suffer from no FOH engineer and the inevitable volume twiddling guitard! This same guy (of the two) never realises the potential of a low volume backline and a good PA. A shame as the other is as good as gold (and is used to playing much larger venues with engineers/crews etc) What starts off as a sensible guitar in my ears level quickly becomes out of control!

[EBS_freak]

Does the guitarist play with IEMs? If so, put so much guitar though them so his ears bleed.

Funnily enough, having certainly instruments in IEMs are a good way of getting the players under control. Drummers, for example, are less likely to bash seven shades of sh1t out of their kit if it's killing their ears. Its amazing how more disciplined people can become with regard to dynamics in such situations

[AndrewJordan]

Cheers for the link to the other thread EBS freak! I hadn't seen it. Just read a page or two and there is some very good info in there!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1476366229' post='3153682']
Cheers for the link to the other thread EBS freak! I hadn't seen it. Just read a page or two and there is some very good info in there!
[/quote]
No problem - I think if people realised that running IEMs on a modern setup (e.g. digital desk) is really straightforward now, a lot more people would be doing it.

[DaytonaRik]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1476360578' post='3153614']
Does the guitarist play with IEMs? If so, put so much guitar though them so his ears bleed.

Funnily enough, having certainly instruments in IEMs are a good way of getting the players under control. Drummers, for example, are less likely to bash seven shades of sh1t out of their kit if it's killing their ears. Its amazing how more disciplined people can become with regard to dynamics in such situations
[/quote]

He's an old school dinosaur when it comes to things like sound reinforcement...more backline is good is his mantra. funnily enough - he swapped to a 15w Victory Kraken amp and loves it instead of his 50w rip-yer-head-off-at-10-paces Earl! Part of the problem is a limited number of monitor channels on the analog desk that we use. That said - I'm sure we could run 1 for the twin guitars and another for the drummer/myself who want a more shall we say rounded mix, not a me me me me me mix!

Myself and the 2nd lead guitar try to educate. We'd go DI or isolation cab even in a pub if we had our way

Edited October 14, 2016 by DaytonaRik

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='DaytonaRik' timestamp='1476440212' post='3154292']
He's an old school dinosaur when it comes to things like sound reinforcement...more backline is good is his mantra. funnily enough - he swapped to a 15w Victory Kraken amp and loves it instead of his 50w rip-yer-head-off-at-10-paces Earl! Part of the problem is a limited number of monitor channels on the analog desk that we use. That said - I'm sure we could run 1 for the twin guitars and another for the drummer/myself who want a more shall we say rounded mix, not a me me me me me mix!

Myself and the 2nd lead guitar try to educate. We'd go DI or isolation cab even in a pub if we had our way
[/quote]

I'm sure that something like an XR18 would scare the bejesus out of him. "What is this remote mixing by tablet voodoo?"

[joeystrange]

Do any of you guys using IEMs NOT use your own PA?
Would it be a lot more difficult if you were to use them with a house PA/engineer?

[JapanAxe]

[quote name='joeystrange' timestamp='1476465700' post='3154639']
Do any of you guys using IEMs NOT use your own PA?
Would it be a lot more difficult if you were to use them with a house PA/engineer?
[/quote]

I will be doing exactly that tonight - just need a reasonable monitor mix from the desk to the transmitter box.