in ear monitors...for pubs?!?

[Roger2611]

Most, if not all pro acts are using IEM's I don't see why it shouldn't filter down to pub bands, especially, as already mentioned, that the normal pub band PA is usually a compromise of cost, size and weight versus sound quality, the use of IEM's should make life easier for the PA, allow for a more controllable sound out front and it should give a consistent sound for the musicians at every venue.

I wonder if in a few years time most gigging musicians will carry their own set which would be run through the venues system, I ask this as we are playing smaller venues in Leicester quite a bit at the moment, usually with a great out front PA and a compromised monitor system, if IEM's become the norm I wonder if musicians will carry their own systems for that consistency of sound at every venue?

[Paul S]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1457027865' post='2994650']
I would wager that a lot of pub bands haven't got a PA capable of putting a band through effectively.
[/quote]

In our case, even though everything is mic'ed /DId, we use usual backline in conjunction with vocals going through FOH with very little of anything else going through the FOH mix. The IEMs are used in place of monitors, which has a mix of everything so that we can hear what we are all doing in a balanced way at an acceptable volume. It isn't a complicated system - we don't each have our own personal mix - but I find it a vast improvement over wearing earplugs and struggling to hear the guitar the other side of the drums and/or vocals.

[sunburstjazz1967]

Di box,good PA speakers with a digital desk and iems is the future. The smaller the venue the better that system works and once you have the band setup into the mixer and monitors the venue size is totally irrelevant, small practice room or knebworth would be just the same, awesome.

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1457027893' post='2994651']
Not quite OT, but intrigued by this. Can you try out an iem system for the singer, giving him the same mix as his current floor monitor, but with an added ambience mic picking up the rest of the stage..? Any half-decent mic facing rearwards near the front of the stage would do (maybe even clipped to his own mic stand..? He'd get to hear all the band, at any level he needs, plus his own vocals. All you need is a spare mic and a spare channel on the console. No good..? Sounds odd, to me, to wear ear protection and then turn up the monitors; I could be wrong, though.
Just sayin'.
[/quote]this has crossed my mind, but really if we're using the back line and not boosting it through the PA, unless the IEM are exceptional at being ear plugs we shouldn't need anything else other than vocals going through them, trouble is he seems very reluctant to try this for some reason, just always says he can't afford them, which is bollocks really, he spends a fortune on going to gigs and buying CD's, I think the real reason is he doesn't understand them, he's a bit of Luddite, I'll keep trying though

[bonzodog]

We are a 3 piece. Drummer and me and guitarist and we both share vocals. We currently use wedges but was thinking going iem.
Thing is we only play pubs so only use backline and just put vocals through PA. If we went iem just so we could hear the vocals and therefore sing better, would having the ear pieces in block out too much of the guitars and drums?

[colgraff]

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1457032750' post='2994712']
We are a 3 piece. Drummer and me and guitarist and we both share vocals. We currently use wedges but was thinking going iem.
Thing is we only play pubs so only use backline and just put vocals through PA. If we went iem just so we could hear the vocals and therefore sing better, would having the ear pieces in block out too much of the guitars and drums?
[/quote]
I used to worry about that. If you buy super expensive ear buds then I suspect it will, but I use relatively cheap ones and don't push them in too far so background noise gets in a bit too.

[bonzodog]

[quote name='colgraff' timestamp='1457032918' post='2994714']

I used to worry about that. If you buy super expensive ear buds then I suspect it will, but I use relatively cheap ones and don't push them in too far so background noise gets in a bit too.
[/quote]

As a trial and also plus the fact I stand next to the mixer when playing I have even thought about plugging some cheap earphones into the headphone socket of the mixer to see how it sounds when playing

[bassjim]

thanks for all your comments so far...............

lets say i went ok then lets give em a go............ how do I plug my bass into this whole thing and what happens if say the guitarist suddenly is too loud or a patch from the keys player then comes in out the blue but is really tinny.

can you find yourself drowned out by the drummer cause you happen to be trapped next to him/her with no room to escape?

what if the bass sounds s++t through the PA?

I got a singer in the past to get them as an addition to his monitor cause he was struggling as a singer more than anything, but turned up without his usual monitor which was obviously a disaster.

I'm starting to think these on a pub level are ok providing you use them alongside backline. which in turn makes me think whats the point?

still not seen anything here so far that convinces me that IEMs are a one size fits all solution.

my feeling is to say to the band: if you think you will play better for having them then go for it on the basis you keep the back line and I could tell you when I need that up or down.
for a drummer they would be great but this is the drummers problem so he can shell out for them plus a mixer,plus drum mics and thats him done.
for a vocalist,providing there is a stage monitor/s, they would make sence,on the basis the vocalist is a good one and doesnt start singing without any gusto cause they think every one can hear them like they can.

I really cant be swayed towards them so perhaps untill i have tried them out for myself I shouldnt be so judgmental.......now then,,where did i leave that £500.00 IEM fund laying about......

[mr zed]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1457027616' post='2994649']
[color=#000000][font=-apple-system-font][size=3]
Mr Zed - glad you are still living the dream! [/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

Oh yes - still mightily impressed every time I use them. One of the most important and enjoyable musically related purchases I have ever made. Wouldn't be without them.

[sunburstjazz1967]

As for plugging it in etc....what desk have you got? Ideally you want one with an aux out for each person as you can mix what you want in your own ears, the actual system will (should) have a limiter to stop you being deafened.

[blue]

I play around 76 gigs annually. 75% are bar bar gigs.

IEM, are not a necessity for bar gigs. But not a bad thing to have if you gig enough to justify the expense.

Blue

[gapiro]

[quote name='DiceSociety' timestamp='1457027537' post='2994646']
Firstly I admit I've never tried IEM's, but a bug bear of mine from an audience stand point, is poor sound when a whole band goes through a PA for pubs. Personally I think it sounds much better just putting the vocals through the PA, and everything else goes through the back line with the volume dictated by how loud the drummer is. Obviously for larger venues a PA is needed. It appears that I'm in a minority though!
To be honest I'm rarely impressed by the sound of professional bands in a large venue where the sound is: Bass - an indeterminable rumble, the guitars - a trebly mess, and the only thing that sounds good is the drums and occasionally the vocals. I think some engineers try and recreate the sound of a CD where nothing has any room to breathe, which in my humble, or possibly misguided opinion, is the wrong way to go for live music.

I'll get my coat....
[/quote]
[quote]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I would wager that a lot of pub bands haven't got a PA capable of putting a band through effectively. [/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][/quote][/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]This is exactly it. If you're running everything from kick through bass up to vox through a 10 inch thomann special you're going to drown out a lot of the impact of the vox with the kick drum alone (the kick tending to overload it)[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]If I could afford a) a bigger car a couple of grand for a digital mixer etc c) a bigger house ( I struggle to keep my DB in it....) then I would buy a full PA system for myself [/font][/color]

[Kevsy71]

Looking at this from another angle: we're in the fortunate position whereby our pub audience is so small, we can simply give each of them IEMs. Voilà - no bulky PA speakers!

[LiamPodmore]

A band i know only use modelling/DI and IEM, no matter where they play. That's just their setup. If you do it like they do and have a self contained system that's easy to set up and reliable, then i can't see any reason why not to myself.

[JapanAxe]

My 2p worth:

I used to play in a pub covers trio, and early on I bought a set of Trantec IEMs for myself and the singer/guitarist. We only put vocals plus a bit of guitar through the PA, so effectively we just used them for vocal monitoring. We always kept our backline. I left a few years ago but the same band is still using the IEM set.

Good points
- one small, lightweight case to carry around instead of 2 or more heavy, bulky wedge monitors
- very clear sound (after we bought decent earphones - the ones in the kit were shocking)
- isolation from rather loud guitar, bass, drums
- more space left on the floor, fewer obstacles for drunken punters to fall over
- keeps down the overall volume in the venue as ypu don't have another set of speakers blasting away on the floor

Bad points
- always recharging PP3 9V batteries to make sure they don't die near the end of the second set
- to start with you feel a bit cut off from the action (the downside of the acoustic isolation bit)
- my bass never sounded as good with the earphones in, as I was just getting whatever spilled into the vocal mics
- impossible to judge the sound balance - someone still has to walk out the front on a long lead and report back

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='DiceSociety' timestamp='1457027537' post='2994646']
Firstly I admit I've never tried IEM's, but a bug bear of mine from an audience stand point, is poor sound when a whole band goes through a PA for pubs. Personally I think it sounds much better just putting the vocals through the PA, and everything else goes through the back line with the volume dictated by how loud the drummer is. Obviously for larger venues a PA is needed. It appears that I'm in a minority though!
To be honest I'm rarely impressed by the sound of professional bands in a large venue where the sound is: Bass - an indeterminable rumble, the guitars - a trebly mess, and the only thing that sounds good is the drums and occasionally the vocals. I think some engineers try and recreate the sound of a CD where nothing has any room to breathe, which in my humble, or possibly misguided opinion, is the wrong way to go for live music.

I'll get my coat....
[/quote]no need to get your coat, these are my thoughts exactly, whenever we play a gig with a full PA my heart sinks, all what you said and a kick drum that that is top of the mix, we've got a fairly regular (small) following and they all say we sound best when we do our own sound (just vocals through the PA), this is where IEM fall down, unless you go to the hassle of micing everything up it's going to be a problem getting a good mix to the IEM, and if you do it means lugging around a bigger PA loads of mics and stands plus extra time setting up, at the moment we're ready to go in about 30 minutes.
I still like to hear from anyone who has successfully used IEM with just the vocals through the PA

[AlpherMako4]

Yes yes and thrice yes. Best thing ever. Even when I'm playing drums.

Edited March 4, 2016 by AlpherMako5

[Jacqueslemac]

Apologies if I've missed something, as I haven't read through all the thread. Does it have to be all or nothing?

For a short time I played in a band where the singer used in-ear monitors but the drummer (who also sang) and guitarist didn't. We all used our own backline.

I borrowed a set of in-ear monitors and it was great. I could get the exact mix I wanted. The guitarist hated the idea because he liked to feel his tone as well as hear it.

[mr zed]

[URL=http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/zedsled/media/EBMM%2025th%20Anniversary/Andy%20with%2025th%20live_zpsixfzcrnm.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1291.photobucket.com/albums/b560/zedsled/EBMM%2025th%20Anniversary/Andy%20with%2025th%20live_zpsixfzcrnm.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Me looking a knob with my iem's on a pub gig

[EBS_freak]

Can't beat a bit of Tickled Trout action!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='mr zed' timestamp='1457086899' post='2995104']
[url="http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/zedsled/media/EBMM%2025th%20Anniversary/Andy%20with%2025th%20live_zpsixfzcrnm.jpg.html"][/url]

Me looking a knob with my iem's on a pub gig
[/quote]
Ha! I don't give a rats what I look like. I like to hear on the gig... and I'd like to hear in the future without hearing loss! I'm completely with you!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1457086179' post='2995098']
Apologies if I've missed something, as I haven't read through all the thread. Does it have to be all or nothing?

For a short time I played in a band where the singer used in-ear monitors but the drummer (who also sang) and guitarist didn't. We all used our own backline.

I borrowed a set of in-ear monitors and it was great. I could get the exact mix I wanted. The guitarist hated the idea because he liked to feel his tone as well as hear it.
[/quote]

Not sure what you mean by all or nothing? As in everybody on in ears? Well, that certainly helps as it removes all temptation to turn around and mess with the settings on the amps.

[Jacqueslemac]

What I mean is that if some members of the band want to invest in in-ear monitors, let them. Those who prefer to stick with stage monitors can do so.

[sunburstjazz1967]

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1457090503' post='2995193']
What I mean is that if some members of the band want to invest in in-ear monitors, let them. Those who prefer to stick with stage monitors can do so.
[/quote]
Id prefer all myself depending on which members want or have them, drummer instead of a wedge is fine isn't it, a singer only going through front of house is leaving the rest of the band struggling to hear what's happening, if you take monitors then there is little point as you are lugging extra kit around.

[LayDownThaFunk]

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1457090503' post='2995193']
What I mean is that if some members of the band want to invest in in-ear monitors, let them. Those who prefer to stick with stage monitors can do so.
[/quote]
What's the point in that?