charic Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Other than the IEM kit itself what else is needed? How do you go about sorting the mix? We're struggling with volumes and I think this route could really help us tighten up significantly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 http://basschat.co.uk/topic/205633-in-ear-monitors-help-needed/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1457078118' post='2995005'] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/205633-in-ear-monitors-help-needed/"]http://basschat.co.u...rs-help-needed/[/url] [/quote] This thread should be pinned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 Cheers guys! Mostly makes sense to me! Just trying to work out a mixing desk on a budget. Bear in mind initially I'm looking at this for to combat the fact that rehearsal studio PAs are just not up to it (two vocalists, heavy on keys) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) Behringer X Air series look to be a good deal for what you're after - you don't state what your budget is, but the X18 and XR18 both have 6 aux sends, XR16 has 4, XR12 has 2. All can be controlled remotely via wifi and iOS, Android, PC, Mac, etc so control over monitor mixes using an app on your phone. If it's just for rehearsal perhaps you could also consider the jamhub? May look a bit mickey mouse, but would work. Even better if you had E-drums/V-drums. These are the solutions I'm looking at myself. Edited March 4, 2016 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Thoroughly recommend the Behringer XR(x). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I don't know much abut desks but isn't there usually always a line out for monitors? That is the feed we use, balanced lead connecting this to the transmitter. It has a different mix to FOH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1457089730' post='2995162'] Thoroughly recommend the Behringer XR(x). [/quote] The behringer XR looks interesting. What's the deal with getting the mix to the PA afterwards? Just use the XLR Outs? Really reasonably priced! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 Ok, So if I've got this right : Behringer XR12 (Stereo Keys, 2xStereo Vocals, Bass DI, Mic'd Guitar) - £259 http://www.gak.co.uk/en/behringer-x-air-xr12/120956?gclid=CjwKEAiAgeW2BRDDtKaTne77ghgSJACq2U4b8Rzr-C4Ju9o2J4gLFuJI3qQrdugEgSGPlA2BNqe8FRoC7pLw_wcB 2x Gear4Music or similar 3 pack : £120 (£240 total) to allow for one vocal mix (2 people) / one band mix (4 people) Stereo out from XR12 goes to PA for if anyone doesn't want to use in ears or to a recording device Drums let in acoustically because initially we'll have cheapy headphones. Would that work ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 What else is needed? A great PA and a guy with good ears to mix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1457093607' post='2995251'] What else is needed? A great PA and a guy with good ears to mix it. [/quote] We'll be mostly on the metal circuit (we play symphonic metal), generally speaking you don't need your own PA as the venues have them or you hire one. Would love to have a dedicated sound guy, this is mostly aimed at getting decent sound at rehearsals to be honest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colgraff Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1457093267' post='2995244'] Ok, So if I've got this right : Behringer XR12 (Stereo Keys, 2xStereo Vocals, Bass DI, Mic'd Guitar) - £259 [url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/behringer-x-air-xr12/120956?gclid=CjwKEAiAgeW2BRDDtKaTne77ghgSJACq2U4b8Rzr-C4Ju9o2J4gLFuJI3qQrdugEgSGPlA2BNqe8FRoC7pLw_wcB"]http://www.gak.co.uk...qe8FRoC7pLw_wcB[/url] 2x Gear4Music or similar 3 pack : £120 (£240 total) to allow for one vocal mix (2 people) / one band mix (4 people) Stereo out from XR12 goes to PA for if anyone doesn't want to use in ears or to a recording device Drums let in acoustically because initially we'll have cheapy headphones. Would that work ok? [/quote] That sounds correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1457089802' post='2995165'] I don't know much abut desks but isn't there usually always a line out for monitors? That is the feed we use, balanced lead connecting this to the transmitter. It has a different mix to FOH. [/quote] Not always. For analogue - Generally on small analogue desks, there will be one or two. On medium desks, there are typically three or four. On large format desks there are typically 6 to 10 (but we are talking large touring desks here). In touring situations, it's not uncommon to split the XLRs at the stage and have a front of house and a dedicated monitor desk to do the IEM/wedge mixing. In digital world, even the smallest desks tend to have a large aux count than their analogue equivalents. Remember, you'll need two auxes for a stereo IEM mix... so thinking that your desk with 6 auxes is plenty... well, it depends upon what you need. Thats a maximum of 3 stereo mixes, or 6 mono mixes, with a mixture of stereo and monitor mixes in-between those two boundaries. In the digital world though, there are more options... like the Behringer P16 or A&H ME1 - which remove the reliance on dedicate aux busses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) [quote name='charic' timestamp='1457075665' post='2994992'] Other than the IEM kit itself what else is needed? How do you go about sorting the mix?... [/quote] The ideal situation is a console or system capable of feeding each iem set with their own, individual mix. Standard 'old-school' consoles won't have enough Aux channels for that, typically, so one would have to either compromise on flexibility and agree to 'share' an iem mix (fight it out between yourselves as to what's in the mix, and at what level...), or change for a more modern console, typically digital, these days. 6 or more Aux sends are available with the new gear, and there are many other advantages at the same time, but it's a different approach, and requires some investment, offset slightly by a sale, perhaps, of the old console..? Is it worth it..? That depends on so many factors, specific to each band, to be answered with a simple phrase, but if there's any upgrade anywhere in the present PA system, it's worth at least considering whilst you're at it. It's a major re-think, in any case, not just a light gadget to add on to an existing set-up, I reckon. Just my tuppence-worth. Edited March 4, 2016 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1457094885' post='2995280'] Remember, you'll need two auxes for a stereo IEM mix... so thinking that your desk with 6 auxes is plenty... well, it depends upon what you need. Thats a maximum of 3 stereo mixes, or 6 mono mixes, with a mixture of stereo and monitor mixes in-between those two boundaries. [/quote] So the behringer XR12 would only do one stereo mix? Drat... screw it we can all share Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1457094885' post='2995280'] Not always. For analogue - Generally on small analogue desks, there will be one or two. On medium desks, there are typically three or four. On large format desks there are typically 6 to 10 (but we are talking large touring desks here). In touring situations, it's not uncommon to split the XLRs at the stage and have a front of house and a dedicated monitor desk to do the IEM/wedge mixing. In digital world, even the smallest desks tend to have a large aux count than their analogue equivalents. Remember, you'll need two auxes for a stereo IEM mix... so thinking that your desk with 6 auxes is plenty... well, it depends upon what you need. Thats a maximum of 3 stereo mixes, or 6 mono mixes, with a mixture of stereo and monitor mixes in-between those two boundaries. In the digital world though, there are more options... like the Behringer P16 or A&H ME1 - which remove the reliance on dedicate aux busses. [/quote] I think the main thing here is we are looking at very different gigging scenarios. Typically with this band we play in a small pub, using a small desk that has just 2 AUX outputs. We all have the same mono mix. And for our purposes this works well. But I can see for bigger gigs with more complex equipment it can only be better - just not necessary for our level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 I wasn't applying this to any situation in particular... just giving a run down of auxes and their typical counts on desks. Not all people's situations are the same... I've played a gig using a GLD80 for 5 mics... (4 vocals and a kick drum) in a pub. Now that's the wrong tool for the job... Or is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelfin Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 http://www.thomann.de/gb/soundcraft_ui16.htm?gclid=CObFs8XMr8sCFUSVGwodBPkG4w Soundcraft UI16 Has 4 independent aux outs so will feed 4 Iem's with their own mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 [quote name='gelfin' timestamp='1457389133' post='2998136'] [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/soundcraft_ui16.htm?gclid=CObFs8XMr8sCFUSVGwodBPkG4w"]http://www.thomann.d...CFUSVGwodBPkG4w[/url] Soundcraft UI16 Has 4 independent aux outs so will feed 4 Iem's with their own mix. [/quote] Or two in stereo... http://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_x_air_xr16.htm also from same price category... XR18 will get you 6 auxes... but will also give you further capability with the P16 system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Is stereo (or bi-channel..?) [i]so [/i]important for monitoring..? Does anyone [i]really [/i]go for that..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1457401286' post='2998214'] Is stereo (or bi-channel..?) [i]so [/i]important for monitoring..? Does anyone [i]really [/i]go for that..? [/quote] Absolutely! An in ears mix in stereo is something to behold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1457401286' post='2998214'] Is stereo (or bi-channel..?) [i]so [/i]important for monitoring..? Does anyone [i]really [/i]go for that..? [/quote] Both our vocals and our keys are in stereo so it could become fairly vital Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 You run stereo front of house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted March 8, 2016 Author Share Posted March 8, 2016 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1457426942' post='2998281'] You run stereo front of house? [/quote] Generally yeah, unless there's anything weird going on. I run a Korg Kronos 2 and the sounds are well suited to stereo in a live environment. Both vox run tc helicon voicelive 2 units Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 Guess it sucks to watch your show if you are off centre of the stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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