Sound Checks....or lack of!

[LewisK1975]

Soundchecking is a funny old game at pub/club/function band level. Also depends if you're running full FOH or backline/vocal PA only.

We run full FOH & the longest surviving members of the band don't like soundchecking - so at the very least, I ALWAYS do a line check of every PA input, just to make sure everything is on at least.

I do get a little pissed off when people refuse to soundcheck, and then complain about stage volume (and don't forget it can be either too loud or too quiet!)

[sunburstjazz1967]

We've just gone to a gated kick drum and some serious eq on it, solves a lot of trouble.

[EmmettC]

Our band use an Allen & Heath QU24 digital desk, so we can recall scenes which is really useful to keep sound checks as short as possible, but it's part of our contract that we get an hour set up time with a soundcheck.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1457265128' post='2996798']
We have an unspoken rule that no-one drinks until after the gig. If you rehearse sober then drink before a gig there's a good chance you're going to have some kind of problem, either with hearing or with memory loss! Everyone has to be on the same page.
[/quote]

I've known a few bands who get around this inconsistency by drinking at reheasals too!

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1457348157' post='2997513']
I've known a few bands who get around this inconsistency by drinking at reheasals too!
[/quote]

I was going to say that... Not that I've ever been involved in such projects obviously...

[discreet]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1457348157' post='2997513']
I've known a few bands who get around this inconsistency by drinking at reheasals too!
[/quote]

Nothing wrong with that if all in agreement. Before I stopped drinking I was in a band I thought were a bit sh*t so I'd have a couple of drinks before gigs to bring my playing down to their level.

Edited March 7, 2016 by discreet

[Blink]

You mention that the kick drum mic was near the monitor. Only put the bare essentials through the monitors such as vocals and any acoustic instruments (sax etc.). This cuts down the potential for feedback, reduces the on stage volume so the guartist doesn't feel the need to compete and reduces the vocal mics reamplifying the monitor mix.

[bassjim]

I think every thing sounds really loud when you sound check in an empty room. its almost like " shhhhh! that sounds really loud.this and thats too loud!" Of course it isnt but you just get that perception.

what we do in a simular/most situations is always start with hot rods(super light weight drum sticks for any one that doesnt already know) on the drums and keep the back line right down, especially if the audience dont look too friendly.

after a couple of tunes if they look like they are responding in a good way we go up a notch or too. if they stay on side, get the sticks out and go up a bit more.and so on.

sometimes we get to sticks and some one from the audience goes " I am a complete idiot. I have come out to see a band/attending a do where there is a band but am unable to have a conversation with my friends. please can you turn it down". in which case back down to hot rod volume.

If the room is really boomy then loud on any level is going to kill it so we may even stay with hot rods all night.
Drummer might hate it but it could be the difference between successful and an unsuccessful night with repeat bookings. Not every gig will be like it so they (drummer) should suck it up like we do when its a S++t bass sound room) Ditto other band members with lack of volume control. (easier said than done but ....)

this way we can always hear each other and most importantly the vocals from the off. If no sound check was available, this is how we do it most of the time if thats of any help to man or beast anyway!

Edited March 7, 2016 by bassjim

[Hugh971]

I once played a wedding reception which was actually in a Church with a nice house PA. We turned up early, brought our own sound guy who set us all up, and ran everything through the PA.

We did a proper sound check and then left for a few hours.

When we got back one of the guests had gone to the desk with their iPod (to put some music on) and for some reason turned EVERY gain on the board all the way down.

Thankfully the sound guy was competent and fixed it with a quick line check. Proper annoying though!


Hugh

[lowhand_mike]

we always sound check, we generally get asked to turn up early to set up so were not in the way when the punters (if there are any) show up. if we dont get there early we do the first two numbers will be the sound check and we let the audience know, never had a problem.
just upgraded our desk to an X32 so we can save scenes for venues which will be handy

[mcnach]

[quote name='CHW' timestamp='1457272183' post='2996887']
I spent 10 years or so playing in a ceilidh band, and there were plenty of occasions when we arrived at a venue, and had to set up with the room full of guests and no opportunity to do a sound check. In the end we came up with a solution that worked really well. We'd get everyone plugged in to the PA and check all of the signals, then start off with the squeezeboxes, bringing them up to the right level, I'd then introduce the acoustic guitar, drums and bass, one by one, ensuring that I got the mix right. The bass player would be out at the back of the room and we'd communicate through some simple hand gestures. When the bass player would come in, I'd go out to the back of the room and he would adjust himself as needed in the PA. Finally I'd pick up my electric guitar and the bass player would fade me up through the PA, as I joined in from the back of the room (Wireless). The whole process took about 3-4 mins. There were times that we actually used this method for the first dance, managing it with a floor full of people

It worked very well and numerous customers commented on how professional it seemed. The most pleasing comments were from staff at venues, who would often comment on how well it worked in comparison to other bands setting up.
[/quote]


that's a great way to do it!

[cheddatom]

The last gig I played on bass, I was stood right over my amp, and the soundman had me turned down so low I actually couldn't hear what I was playing. Apparently the sound was perfect out front (it was a very small room, quiet audience) so I was happy. I just had to trust that I knew how to play the songs.

Regarding drums - I play a lot of gigs on drums and I've never had to resort to hot-rods, I just don't hit the drums as hard. The big one is the crash cymbal or open hats which can get very piercing if I get carried away. I put ear plugs in for the loud gigs (big room and PA) and don't wear them for the quiet little pubs, so if I play too loud, it hurts. It's like my own sound level meter. Everyone else in this band just keeps to a sensible level over the drums, so we really don't care if we get a soundcheck or not. If it's one where you're asked to turn up 5 hours before playing to check, I'll decline and just wing it.

[Ghost_Bass]

Golden rules, for me:

Always make sure you leave yourself some time to soundcheck properly. The best band in world is inaudible with a sh*t sound. If you're being payed you must offer the best quality possible.(Edit: if playing fro free you never know if somebody in the audience may offer you a payed gig if he liked your work)

Some rooms are very hard to get a half-decent sound, on those times all you can do is to do the best possible mix on soundcheck and if you're not using a sound engineer don't mess with the mixer during the gig (unless something really bad like feedbacks occour). If you did your best at soundcheck you wont be able to improve the sound during the gig, standing in the stage, chances are that it'll only get worse.

One thing that helps a lot in bad rooms like the one you described (lots of glass or narrow space) is for the band to previously agree that they need to play at a lower volume in that venue (and that includes convincing the drummer to hit softer or at least replace his sticks with brushes).

Edited March 15, 2016 by Ghost_Bass

[cheddatom]

the sticks/brushes/hot rods thing - I can make hotrods easily as loud as sticks, and I can make sticks as quiet as brushes. It's not the easiest thing to learn but surely most gigging drummers can play quietly?

[Dave Vader]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1457265128' post='2996798']
rehearse sober
[/quote]

that's where you're going wrong....


The best way to sort out volume problems would be if bassists stood next to guitar amps, and guitarists next to bass amps.
Then you'd turn each other down rather than yourself up.
(Will never happen though)

[TimR]

[quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1458054302' post='3004221']


that's where you're going wrong....


The best way to sort out volume problems would be if bassists stood next to guitar amps, and guitarists next to bass amps.
Then you'd turn each other down rather than yourself up.
(Will never happen though)
[/quote]

I can't see how that would set work. You need to hear yourself louder than everything else but for it still to sit well in the FOH mix. Over the years you develop a feeling for just being at the correct volume.

If you weren't standing next to your speaker you'd need it a lot louder. You'd very quickly have no sound at all.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1458045979' post='3004149']
the sticks/brushes/hot rods thing - I can make hotrods easily as loud as sticks, and I can make sticks as quiet as brushes. It's not the easiest thing to learn but surely most gigging drummers can play quietly?
[/quote]

I've been fortunate to find these rare gems in the last years in my previous and current bands but i, personally, know more drummers that only know how to hit hard than those who have a good sense of dynamic and can adjust volume.

We all know that the drum kit/drummer sets the benchmark for onstage volume and i'm one of the first to agree with any drummer that says that when you hit it hard it sounds better but not all are prepared to sacrifice a bit of his tone for the greater good (or aren't able to do that).

Like i said, i'm fortunate to been playing with a drummer for the last 5 years that understands this (but i still take every chance to tell him to play softer, just to keep him on his toes )

[TimR]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1458062683' post='3004336']


I've been fortunate to find these rare gems in the last years in my previous and current bands but i, personally, know more drummers that only know how to hit hard than those who have a good sense of dynamic and can adjust volume.

We all know that the drum kit/drummer sets the benchmark for onstage volume and i'm one of the first to agree with any drummer that says that when you hit it hard it sounds better but not all are prepared to sacrifice a bit of his tone for the greater good (or aren't able to do that).

Like i said, i'm fortunate to been playing with a drummer for the last 5 years that understands this (but i still take every chance to tell him to play softer, just to keep him on his toes )
[/quote]

We solved it with one drummer by all refusing to turn the volume up to match him.

He had no idea where he was in the songs and kept complaining he couldn't hear the rest of the band.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1458064482' post='3004371']
We solved it with one drummer by all refusing to turn the volume up to match him.

He had no idea where he was in the songs and kept complaining he couldn't hear the rest of the band.
[/quote]

It's one way to do it.

[lonestar]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1458045979' post='3004149']
the sticks/brushes/hot rods thing - I can make hotrods easily as loud as sticks, and I can make sticks as quiet as brushes. It's not the easiest thing to learn but surely most gigging drummers can play quietly?
[/quote]

Ive heard a drummer describe this as playing to the room , which sounds like an eminently sensible approach to me. I wish more would adopt this. I try to on bass

[BottomE]

Only time we do a proper soundcheck is when using a full PA, which isn't often.

Otherwise the pre-gig ritual is as follows:

Normally the vocals, keys, horns - anything thats being put into the PA gets checked that its coming out the speakers. Monitor check. Impatiently the drummer hits his kit randomly whilst this is happening. Guitartist plays licks while "testing" that his pedals work. More random drum noises. Guitarist checks guitar 2. Horns get another tuning. Bit more drums. Keys checks on-stage sound.

The first time the bass makes a noise is on the first song.

[colgraff]

[quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1458074578' post='3004518']
Only time we do a proper soundcheck is when using a full PA, which isn't often.

Otherwise the pre-gig ritual is as follows:

Normally the vocals, keys, horns - anything thats being put into the PA gets checked that its coming out the speakers. Monitor check. Impatiently the drummer hits his kit randomly whilst this is happening. Guitartist plays licks while "testing" that his pedals work. More random drum noises. Guitarist checks guitar 2. Horns get another tuning. Bit more drums. Keys checks on-stage sound.

The first time the bass makes a noise is on the first song.
[/quote]

What are you doing at my sound checks?

[PaulWarning]

we set up, only use the PA for vocals, I wonder out front because I'm wireless, remembering to leave my hearing aids in for the sound check, 1234, into Rockaway Beach, maybe a bit of twiddling, usually the guitar up or down, do a bit of Another Girl Another Planet to make sure the guitarists solo aren't to loud, warm the smoke machine up and then hang around to do the gig

[TimR]

[quote name='lonestar' timestamp='1458068836' post='3004415']


Ive heard a drummer describe this as playing to the room , which sounds like an eminently sensible approach to me. I wish more would adopt this. I try to on bass
[/quote]

I think a lot of bands try to fill the room with sound. If there is a dance floor; that's the area to fill with sound. If people want to dance they'll come forward.

If your audience are all standing along the back wall; you're too loud.

[theplumber]

I had a chat with the singer the other day,he said the drummer bass drum was only coming through a monitor that the drummer had beside him. Maybe it was being picked up by other mikes,no idea.... Just seems the carpets and curtains may nave soaked up our sound,causing us to have to turn up louder to compensate. Plus he said he wasn't concered with the folk at the back of the room,they don't complain,it's the folk sitting or standing nearer to the band who do! .....I think I'll just try and turn down a bit!!