Sandpaper for fret polishing

[essexbasscat]

Hi there

I'm doing a number of setups at the moment and the topic of fret polishing has come under scrutiny. There's a range of opinions out there on the topic, often conflicting. I wonder if those in the know at B.C. could offer any clarification ?

Background

So far, I've levelled off frets using a beam with sandpaper attached with double sided tape (sandpaper with tape applied supplied by the person who supplies the beam). The frets are then crowned using a diamond coated crowning file from Stewmac.
I then polish the frets with rubbers impregnated with an abrasive (available from guitar tool suppliers), going through the grades from course to fine. The thing is, there are sometimes fine scratches that are difficult to remove by this method. As a result, I've been investigating other methods of polishing frets.

Some time ago, I discussed the topic of fret polishing with a well known luthier. They said they used wire wool alone for the job, going from 00 to 0000 grades. They also justified the process with the claim that wet and dry sandpaper deposits particles in the frets

I've researched online discussions on the topic of fret polishing. Most comments revolve around folk using sandpaper for the job, going though grades 320 - 400 - 600 - 1000. Some say they go up to 1500 grade and others use micromesh. As for methods, some mask the fretboard with masking tape, others don't. Many polish up the length of the fretboard in a bumpety - bumpety fashion, while others work along the line of the fret (which I do).

My main questions are;
- are there best types of sandpaper to use ? are there types to avoid ? do some papers impregnate the frets with grit ?

Any other discussion on fret levelling, crowning and polishing would be gratefully received

Many thanks BC

EBC

[gary mac]

I would avoid sand paper and treat yourself to a pack of Micromesh.
It is brilliant for fret polishing and a multitude of other polishing/buffing tasks.

About a tenner on Ebay will get you good variety, from coarseish to super fine.

It really is far superior to sand paper for this sort of work.


It also smells lovely

Edited March 11, 2016 by gary mac

[hubrad]

The above, also 0000 grade wire wool - great for polishing up fretless boards, too!

[MoonBassAlpha]

In your process, how fine do you go with the grit at the levelling stage? It may be there is too large a discrepancy between the levelling and polishing stages.
I finish levelling at 1000 before crowning an polishing.

[Twincam]

Ok my process is level, re crown then 400, 800, 1200 wet and dry (used dry) sometimes before the 400 I will use maybe a 240 if needed I use a traditional crowning file which can take a lot longer and can leave larger file marks initially but offer greater control over the crown.
Anyhow after the 400,800,1200 it's autosol time and is excellent at bringing out a mirror shine.

In regards to how I use the sandpaper I wrap it around a polishing rubber and use it in the same manner as you would use the rubber. Then I gave the whole board a going over with my finger wrapped in the paper bumping allong the frets this works great! Although needs to be done gently.

I have all the grades of polishing rubbers but find them crap to no honest.

Yes I mask off the entire board twice over.

I have pics if anyone interested???

Oh and to add I use a levelling file not sandpaper it much faster although has the disadvantage of larger file marks.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Twincam

[Grangur]

Duraglit or Brasso every time. But then I'm polishing my own frets. If I was a luthier I'd have an interest in gently wearing down my customers' frets, so I get to do a refret as soon as I can possibly get away with it.

Sorry, does that sound cynical?

[Manton Customs]

Sounds like the problem could be the paper you're leveling with, what grade is it? You don't want anything below 400 to level them, below this and you'll get a lot of difficult to remove scratches.

[essexbasscat]

Thanks for all the replies so far

Before commencing work I prepare the fretboard with masking tape

For the levelling process I use 600 grade on the levelling beam. If there's a lot of difference between the fret heights I go for 320 to level them off and then 600 to present a finish with smaller grooves at the apex of the frets

The marksI find the most difficult to polish away are the ones generated by the crowning process. The diamond crowning tool tends to leave small grooves along the sides of the frets. I work the crowning file evenly and slowly back and forth, no real extra pressure, monitoring where the tool cutting point is as I go to avoid spending extra time cutting at the ends of the frets. I've also tried the Hosco crowning file design, which tends to leave tool chatter marks

Whichever crowning tool I use, I work to leave a small line at the apex of the fret which can be polished - removing just enough to present a smooth surface and no more. The aim at this stage is to preserve the level between frets while creating a smooth surface

The polishing technique I've used for a while is the abrasive rubbers, but I'm keen to find an alternative method to get that impeccable finish that we would all look for in a bass we would buy ourselves

Update; I spoke with 3M UK this morning and they recommend P grade wet and dry, used dry. The fella said that the issue with grit leaving the sandpaper and embedding itself in metal is a feature of the courser grades of paper such as 80 etc. The P grade paper ensures an even grade of grit across the paper. Apparently, the grit of non - P grade papers can vary across the sheet

Thanks again for all the comments so far, very appreciated

Edited March 11, 2016 by essexbasscat

[Manton Customs]

Ah, 600 is definitely ok for leveling . I use Micro Mesh for the intermediary polishing, grades running around something like 1800, 2400, 3200, then 0000 steel wool and compound to save having to work through every grade of Micro Mesh. It's worth pointing out that the Micro Mesh grades are not the same as regular papers, 1500 is equivalent to around 400 or so. It looks like we are using the same file (SM dual sided, 150 and 300 grit?), and the whole process from leveling to end of polishing takes me around an hour.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Manton Customs

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='Manton Customs' timestamp='1457707018' post='3001172']
Ah, 600 is definitely ok for leveling . I use Micro Mesh for the intermediary polishing, grades running around something like 1800, 2400, 3200, then 0000 steel wool and compound to save having to work through every grade of Micro Mesh. It's worth pointing out that the Micro Mesh grades are not the same as regular papers, 1500 is equivalent to around 400 or so. It looks like we are using the same file (SM dual sided, 150 and 300 grit?), and the whole process from leveling to end of polishing takes me around an hour.
[/quote]

An hour ? flippin eck ! it takes me all day ! Yes, it does sound like we're using the same crowning tool - yours must be a quicker cutting model than mine

I'm going to try this micromesh idea, it seems a lot of people are doing it this way, thanks for the tips

[Twincam]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1457732762' post='3001513']


An hour ? flippin eck ! it takes me all day ! Yes, it does sound like we're using the same crowning tool - yours must be a quicker cutting model than mine

I'm going to try this micromesh idea, it seems a lot of people are doing it this way, thanks for the tips
[/quote]

Was also going to to say an hour! That is quick!. Takes me approx 3 or so hours for a full 24 fret job. As said I use the more traditional files rather than the pre cut crowning file. So much more control over the actual crown shape and size imo of course.

One thing has anyone noticed how poor quality some fret material seems to be? One fret to the other can seem very inconsistent and some high end basses can have very soft or inconsistent fret metal.

I would like to see companies use more higher end materials quality stainless steel etc. Pain in the behind to re level, crown etc but a better choice overall.

[essexbasscat]

Even three hours is still miles faster than me ! WIth truss rod adjustment at the body end of an instrument (as per early Fender), it can take me ages just to ensure the frets are at the best acheivable average for equal height (in the interest of removing the minimum fret material) before starting the levelling process.

While reading around on the topic of sanding materials for frets, I did come across comments about the quality of fret material. One or two were saying that the Dunlop fret material is rather soft, but this was in the context of passing comments with the focus of the discussion on something else.

For what it's worth, I did notice that one or two frets on my current (and last) setup didn't react to tooling and polishing in the same way that the rest did. At the time, I thought it odd but didn't consider it any further at the time. Now I wonder if it's more common ?

[Manton Customs]

Ha, yes it's all in the file . It's just practice really, one of those things you get much faster at without really realising how much you're improving (speed wise). I remember when it took me half the day too!

Regarding the fret wire, yep, not all fret wire is created equal! I use Jescar wire on everything when refretting and building from scratch and it's the best you can get in my opinion.

[Chienmortbb]

Is it wise to use wire wool on a bass with magnetic pickups?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1458141956' post='3005059']
Is it wise to use wire wool on a bass with magnetic pickups?
[/quote]

Get some newspaper and tape it to the bass so you can keep the bits of wire that drop off away from the pickups.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1458141956' post='3005059']
Is it wise to use wire wool on a bass with magnetic pickups?
[/quote]

I would argue that it's not wise - but an acceptable alternative where decent fine sandpaper (or micromesh or emery cloth) is unavailable or very expensive.
As EBS freak said - remove the neck and keep the wool away from any electronics (especially magnetic ones!) - If it's set neck or neck through make sure to mask off everything you're not working on (I too would approach it as if I was spraying paint - carefully cover everything you're not working on just in case the scraps of wire wool work their way into a piece of electronics). When using wire wool I would strongly recommend you tape off the fretboard . . . the wire will be far less likely to work it's way into the woodgrain.