Monitor Advice

[RockfordStone]

I have been using the same M-Audio AV40's for some 6 years, but last night they gave up the ghost and the left powered amp speaker is now a considerably lower volume than the right hand side. It seems like it is possibly something on the circuit board, but with no confidence in diagnosing or fixing it myself, it would be cheaper or more practical to replace them.

They have served me well and given me good results, and a i could do a straight replacement for under 100 quid, but apparently the issue i have is common in the model so i'm considering upgrading to better options.

I'm happy to spend around the 200-250 so this is putting me in the options of:

KRK RP5s
Yamaha HS5s
M-Audio BX6s

Obviously speaker performance will differ greatly depending on room, but does anyone have any opinions or experience with any of the above and can recommend them.

TA!

[ambient]

Yamaha, I use the HS8s.

I tried KRKs a few years ago, they're particularly coloured, not really what I'd describe as being studio monitors.

[Twigman]

I have a pair of Rokit RP-6
Many say they colour the sound but I love mine.

[charic]

I love yammys but it may be worth seeing what you can find second hand

[Skol303]

I only have experience of using Mackie monitors, but I'd certainly recommend them.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct11/articles/mackie-mr-mk2.htm

I have a set of MR8 and they're very good - albeit probably too large for the room I work in.

You can pick up a pair of MR5 (mk2) for around £200.

[lowdown]

If you can get to hear a pair of PreSonus E5's, have a listen. Outstanding for the price (about £200).
Product Page.
https://www.presonus.com/products/Eris-E5

Review (you won't find many bad reviews, if any).
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct13/articles/presonus-eris.htm

One of my boys has a pair and they sound very good.

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1457714443' post='3001295']
I have a pair of Rokit RP-6
Many say they colour the sound but I love mine.
[/quote]
i was looking at the 5s, but have heard mixed reviews, some hate them some rate them really highly

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Best to listen first if you can - a while back I visited the production room in Leeds to check out headphones, the sales staff were very keen to sell me some KRK cans, I wondered how much crack they'd been smoking to consider such a monstrously hyped voicing as 'neutral' or remotely useful for use in a studio. I hated them, but some people swear by them, so depends greatly on individual taste and the genre(s) of music you want to listen to and work on.

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1457875142' post='3002533']
Best to listen first if you can - a while back I visited the production room in Leeds to check out headphones, the sales staff were very keen to sell me some KRK cans, I wondered how much crack they'd been smoking to consider such a monstrously hyped voicing as 'neutral' or remotely useful for use in a studio. I hated them, but some people swear by them, so depends greatly on individual taste and the genre(s) of music you want to listen to and work on.
[/quote]
my plan is to go in and listen to as many as i can, unfortunatly the area i live in is void of decent music shops.
if worst comes to worst, ill just buy new versions of the ones i already have, at least i know what they sound like.

[roman_sub]

Sorry to echo what already has been said but I think monitor selection is a really personal issue. Until I listened to a number of monitors, I had no idea I preferred slightly softer hi-mid presentation and ended up going for a brand I hadn't considered before (Eve) ahead of more established suspects Adam/Genelec/Focal etc. I understand the issue of local availability but IMO it would be worthwhile a (day) trip to a decent shop with a good number of speakers to "audition".

As with anything, going second hand / b-stock is likely to allow you access to "better" speakers, whatever that means.... which may mean you can audition speakers up to around £400 new?

Red Dog Music in London were very good when I was picking monitors, good in-store choice and very patient.

EDIT: ...in addition to "best practice" suggestion above, I think Alesis M1 struck me as quite decent monitors within OP's price range...

Edited April 5, 2016 by roman_sub

[Leonard Smalls]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1457780460' post='3001706']
I only have experience of using Mackie monitors, but I'd certainly recommend them.

[url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct11/articles/mackie-mr-mk2.htm"]http://www.soundonso...ckie-mr-mk2.htm[/url]

I have a set of MR8 and they're very good - albeit probably too large for the room I work in.

You can pick up a pair of MR5 (mk2) for around £200.
[/quote]

For some reason I've never really got on with Mackies - I've found them to be a touch harsh in the treble, which means you might mix down higher frequencies, then it'll sound a bit "shut in" on other speakers/phones.
This was brought home to me in a big way recently; we recorded our single in a studio in Sheffield which had large Mackie monitors and a sub.
It all sounded quite impressive there, but getting it home onto my much more revealing system (Bryston/Leema/Ditton) showed that both low bass and treble were definitely down (I checked it on a Stax headphone system and some ATC active 150s) leaving a somewhat thin and overly polite actual sound...
Though that was likely to have been an issue with relative speaker/sub balance - an issue quite easily sorted with some DSP - it didn't endear me to the Mackie brand!
But I have always had a liking for Adam monitors...

[4stringslow]

I'm beginning to think that the monitors themselves are less important than listening to lots of commercially recorded stuff through them (a tip someone here told me). Find recordings with a mix you really like and listen to them lots through your monitors so that you get a feel for what sound to aim for. It's working for me

[roman_sub]

^ Very good point, you ultimately need to "learn" your monitors, so they tell you the truth, and nothing but the truth! That becomes somewhat easier with accurate monitors that you don't find fatiguing / unpleasant, though...

[4stringslow]

Yes, fair point, they need to be 'decent' monitors but after that the law of diminishing returns probably kicks in fairly quickly.

[RockfordStone]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1459858458' post='3020280']
I'm beginning to think that the monitors themselves are less important than listening to lots of commercially recorded stuff through them (a tip someone here told me). Find recordings with a mix you really like and listen to them lots through your monitors so that you get a feel for what sound to aim for. It's working for me
[/quote]
there is very much an element of this, in fairness monitors are only really as good as the room you are in.
i've spent 6 years on my monitors, 4 in the current room so i'm used to their quirks etc now.

as an upshot from this, ive decided in the short term at least to get mine repaired, once ive moved house i may invest in new ones, but i will do this in conjunction with some room treatment.

[Skol303]

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1459856976' post='3020259']
For some reason I've never really got on with Mackies - I've found them to be a touch harsh in the treble, which means you might mix down higher frequencies, then it'll sound a bit "shut in" on other speakers/phones...
[/quote]

Interesting... with the Mackies I have at home it's quite the opposite - they're a bit too generous in the low end, whereas the highs are nicely balanced and defined. I have a pair of MR8 mk2, which are relatively cheap and cheerful in the grand scheme of things. They're actually a bit large for the room I work in, but I wanted that extra capacity in the low frequencies given that I churn out a lot of EDM and other bass-heavy stuff.

I'm about to mount them on speaker stands, which will hopefully help to tighten up the lows a little and reduce some of the desk noise I'm getting. I'll report back on whether that proves successful!

I'm not familiar with any other monitors (I was mixing on headphones before buying the Mackies), so don't have experience with other brands to compare with. I have heard good things about Adam, as you mention.

[TorturedSaints]

I have the Adam F5s which I listened to in the shop (Rubadub Music in Glasgow, great store, knowledgeable advice and mail order, very friendly and keen to be price-competitive ) and compared them with other likely suspects. I didn't like the forward presentation of the KRKs nor the PreSonus (can't remember the model, but it was new out a few years ago), so it is definitely worth listening to them if you can. I did want to have a listen to the Equator D5s but they didn't have them on demo. They also recommended for the size of room that I was using that 5" was probably the best size, they had a deal on Rokit RP8s at the time, but said they would be too much for my room. Also, budget for some kind of stands - either the foam ones or monitor stands as well.

If you can do a day trip down to London from Cambridgeshire to listen then I would say it would be money well spent (along with acoustic treatment for your room!)

I still like the Adam F5s but TBH I do the detailed editing/mixing on headphones and only fire the monitors up in the latter stages. That's a whole different 'can' of worms though . .

[Leonard Smalls]

[quote name='RalphDWilson' timestamp='1459949295' post='3021148']
I have the Adam F5s .
[/quote]

For £310 a pair that sounds like a bit of a no-brainer!
I always fancied a pair of Adam Tensor Gammas, but couldn't afford them...

[Skol303]

PS: these guys rock when it comes to room treatment...

http://www.bluefrogaudio.co.uk

The owner, Joe, is a lovely guy and full of good advice. I got plenty of information from him even before I'd placed an order. He's passionate about what he does and his products are top notch for the money (comparable with or perhaps even better than the likes of GIK).

Don't bother with the foam-style panels - they're next to useless when it comes to trapping bass, which is the biggest issue in small home studios. Save up for some proper wooden frame traps and it'll be money very well spent - was for me.

[bigd1]

I have just bought a pair of Rokit 6 from PMT Manchester, spent most of the day trying different speakers and found these to my ears to be the best for my budget.
Very close thing though between the 7" Yamaha and these. I felt the 5" Rokits not have a "something", not sure what, but they didn't have it for me.
I would recommend finding a store you can demo a few monitors that are in your range. Everyone is different, I was thinking from what I have read the Yamaha would be the speakers for me. After test driving the Roket 6" just had the sound.
Ps. Take some recorded music with you. Something you know, listen to how different monitors make familiar recording sound. Let your ears be your guide.
Good luck.

Ta very glad
Dale (BIGd)

[Skol303]

Next time I buy a pair of monitors [i](which will be in the distant future...)[/i], I'll probably save up for a pair with a sealed/portless cabinet - i.e. no bass port. It apparently makes a huge difference in helping to tighten up the low end, according to the likes of Mike Senior and other reputable engineers. Trouble is, you can't buy a good set of sealed monitors without spending a good amount of ca$h.

Failing that, I'll probably opt for a set with the bass port on the front, rather than the rear of the cabinet. Again, this can apparently make a big difference in smaller home studios.

All such things I've learned in hindsight...

[Leonard Smalls]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1460455897' post='3025806']
Next time I buy a pair of monitors [i](which will be in the distant future...)[/i], I'll probably save up for a pair with a sealed/portless cabinet - i.e. no bass port.
[/quote]

It's all swings and roundabouts...
Theoretically, a sealed box will deliver "better" bass, as it's all coming from the driver - unless it's designed to resonate in specific ways...
However, a poorly-designed sealed box will be shown a clean pair of heels by a ported/transmission line/resonator of good design.
The problem with a sealed box is that in order to get extension, you need size...
My Leema Xaviers - designed by a chap I used to work with at the Beeb - manage -3dB at 28Hz using one 6.5" (Scanspeak) bass driver (pistonic excursion of more than 25mm!), in a box 105cm high and 25cm wide by the use of an enormous 100mm port in the front. However, they're still quite big, need an amp, and would still set you back over a grand 2nd hand!
But if you want sealed box active, aren't worried about WAF (wife acceptability factor!), and max bang for the buck, I'd recomment [url="http://www.gear4music.com/Recording-and-Computers/Event-Opal-Active-Studio-Monitor-Single/BGS?origin=product-ads&utm_campaign=*PLA+Shop+-+All+Products&utm_medium=vertical_search&network=google&adgroup=**All+Products&merchant_id=1279443&product_id=14860d1&product_country=GB&product_partition_id=62124249557&gclid=CLKDzoWCicwCFUgq0wodpBcHCQ#full-des"]Event Opals[/url]. They sound most excellent indeed, but are £2300/pair with bass down to 35Hz.
Or if you want WAF, serious wireless design, 750W plus bass down to 16Hz in a tiny package, Devialet Phantoms ar around £2800 a pair!

[4stringslow]

That's all very well, but surely the point of a good production is for the music to sound good on the sorts of systems that people will be using to listen, and isn't this the biggest challenge about the whole process?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1460462124' post='3025894']
That's all very well, but surely the point of a good production is for the music to sound good on the sorts of systems that people will be using to listen, and isn't this the biggest challenge about the whole process?
[/quote]

If I may use a rather loose analogy, it's like taking uber-high resolution photos, knowing that they'll be seen on a domestic monitor. One starts off with the absolute best, and can then 'reduce' to whatever the target is (that's part of what 'mastering' is all about...). Many studios, including home studios, will have not one, but several pairs (or sets..?) of monitors, exactly for that purpose, ie: listening in 'real life' conditions to the result. The high-end monitors are there to hear what 'ordinary' stuff won't show up, but the final result will greatly depend on the top-end ones being as good as possible, far 'better' than domestic ones. The big challenge (amongst many...) is translating between these different environments, so that corrections made at the top sound good on the target. Not helped by needing to cater for several different targets, of course (Hi-fi buffs..? Car radio..? FM transmission..? iPod..? Web..? All different results needed from the same source...).

[Leonard Smalls]

The problem is that music may be listened to on everything from a medium wave radio to a £100k hifi...
So monitoring quality is paramount as you need to know both what's on your recording, as well as what's on your mix - it's then largely a question of experience as to how to make it sound as good as possible on a wide range of kit. Many studios will have a large main monitor for the first, plus something appalling like Yamaha NS10s for the 2nd. If you can get it to sound good on NS10s it'll sound good on anything!
As an illustration, when I worked in BBC sound NICAM was just starting to be popular. Before this, broadcasts had an absolute lower limit of 50Hz, as, barring the occasional simulcast, it would only ever be heard on a TV speaker.
Then we started noticing through our own home NICAM set-ups that, especially on period dramas, there was some low frequency rumble. It turned out that the large Rogers LS55/8 had little output below around 45Hz, so traffic or train rumble wouldn't be heard in the dubbing theatre, but would be on the NICAM signal.
The answer was to filter out everything below 50Hz, until new monitors for all teh dubbing theatres could be bought... (active Harbeth Monitor 40s, btw)