bodyinflight Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Purchased myself a TC Electronic BH250 and an Eden EX210 cab at Christmas. While initially impressed with the volume, I took this to a large venue for a gig - and then another sizeable room for a jam with 2 guitarists and a drummer. It did not hold it's own. I get this is probably the cheapest class D head out there, but the reviews led me to believe it was more than loud enough for big gigs - probably my naivety. Anybody any good experiences with these amps? This Trace though, absolute powerhouse!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2elliot Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 That is a monster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Not impressed with the TC Head - fair enough. That should have been the title of the thread. There are dozens of class D heads about that are way better than the BH250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodyinflight Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 Japhet - like I said, probably my naivety. Just considering the number of good reviews I was led to believe this would hold it's own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mep Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 The TC450 heads are much better. I was told I was a bit too loud last night. I run it through 2x10 cab. I have had Trace heads before and they certainly hold their own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodyinflight Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 mep - would love to try those, but I picked this up for less than £370 and it's guaranteed top drawer tone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Are you comparing a 2x10 rig to a 2x15 rig? If the latter sounds bigger, I'm not surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I`ve one of the BH250s that I bought as a backup head. Last week I loaned it to a couple of bands who were on the same bill. The headline band were a Ramones tribute, so as you can guess not that quiet. The bassist set the volume at around 11 o`clock and was immediately asked to turn it down by the soundman as it was too loud on-stage in comparison to the other instruments. That was with all eq set at noon, and into a Barefaced Super 12T. I`d think a lot of the lack of volume is to do with using a single 210 in a venue. It`s a big ask for a 210, up against 2 guitars & drums in a venue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodyinflight Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 I guess you just can't mess about with bass - go big or go home. I should say I sold a Trace 410 combo to downsize to the bh250. You can imagine my disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I recently rekindled my love affair with Trace Elliot after an extended search for "[i]that elusive sound[/i]" - found out that it doesn't come in a Class D package - only in equipment with "Trace Elliot" written on it!! I've managed to acquire a 7215 combo, a 2x12 cab, a 1x15 cab, a AH150 head and a GP7 200 head all for just over £450. The building I live in does seem to have developed a bit of a lean away from the wall in the living room though.. .. Can't beat a good TE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodyinflight Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 TheGreek - glad to know somebody hears me! There is no substitute unless you want to spend a shitload on Ampeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 I'd never have another Trace Elliott. My class D amp sounds so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTypeV4 Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 To the O/P, I'm not sure we're comparing like for like but none-the-less, that's a lovely rig.. A number of people on here have gone light cab / trace head route which apparently gives the best of both worlds. Personally, I'm happy with my heavy head and (reasonably) lightweight SWR boxes. Lightweight / compact / Class D doesn't interest me as I gig less than 10 (probably 5 at this rate) times a year, I don't have a glass back and am not ever persuing 'that' tone as I feel I already have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) [quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1457902484' post='3002909'] I recently rekindled my love affair with Trace Elliot after an extended search for "[i]that elusive sound[/i]" - found out that it doesn't come in a Class D package - only in equipment with "Trace Elliot" written on it!! Can't beat a good TE!! [/quote] [quote name='VTypeV4' timestamp='1457911269' post='3003027'] To the O/P, I'm not sure we're comparing like for like but none-the-less, that's a lovely rig.. A number of people on here have gone light cab / trace head route which apparently gives the best of both worlds. Personally, I'm happy with my heavy head and (reasonably) lightweight SWR boxes. Lightweight / compact / Class D doesn't interest me as I gig less than 10 (probably 5 at this rate) times a year, I don't have a glass back and am not ever persuing 'that' tone as I feel I already have it. [/quote] [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1457899429' post='3002855'] Are you comparing a 2x10 rig to a 2x15 rig? If the latter sounds bigger, I'm not surprised. [/quote] I think you have the whole argument wrapped up here. If you like the TE sound then TE is the way to go. It's coloured but if it's your favourite colour then everything else is a compromise. the same applies to Ampegs, valve amps or any other classic sound you might be after. There's nothing intrinsically wrong about Class D/lightweight amps but they are all different so they need to be auditioned just like any other amp All other things being equal small speakers will never be as loud as big speakers and cone area is important. Eight Barefaced one 10's will be louder than a single one. Taking a relatively low powered TC amp and using a 2x10 was always going to be at the bottom end of what is usable. Through a 2x15 it might have done what you wanted or a more powerful class D might have worked with the Eden cab. Neither was going to sound like your TE rig. Edited March 14, 2016 by Phil Starr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1457942100' post='3003093'] There's nothing intrinsically wrong about Class D/lightweight amps but they are all different.. [i]*snip*[/i] [/quote] As different as amps that generally use the same power module can be... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamdenRob Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Class D amps are all rubbish it will never catch on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 I think it's all about the heft really... S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Blame your tools. That always works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Expensive when new 2x15 puts out more volume and bottom end than a new cheap 2x10, yep must be the class of output stage amplification, can't think what else could be at play here? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilp Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyder Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 The best rig I've owned for heft and bottom end power was a 1990's Trace 2x15 and their 300 watt head with passive pre. Wonderful but very very heavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 Sitting here deciding on in ears or a DI box and monitor wedge instead of my already compact amp I can't think of anything worse than a big heavy amp these days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1457956834' post='3003266'] Sitting here deciding on in ears or a DI box and monitor wedge instead of my already compact amp I can't think of anything worse than a big heavy amp these days! [/quote] db or d&b? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1457942726' post='3003098'] As different as amps that generally use the same power module can be... :-) [/quote]Fair point but personally I don't think the output stage is the biggest factor. I suspect the lack of 'heft' is down to inadequate power supplies and the 'tone' of the amp is down to tone shaping in the pre amp stages. My feeling is that it's all in the implementation, class D/SMPS power supplies are still in the early days and people are still rushing out 'me too' products, often with a mass of digital processing going on. Over time people will stop obsessing over lightweight and will buy on the basis of sound alone. Manufacturers will have to up their game in this area and the killer amps of the future will probably be class D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1457958572' post='3003300'] Fair point but personally I don't think the output stage is the biggest factor. I suspect the lack of 'heft' is down to inadequate power supplies and the 'tone' of the amp is down to tone shaping in the pre amp stages. My feeling is that it's all in the implementation, class D/SMPS power supplies are still in the early days and people are still rushing out 'me too' products, often with a mass of digital processing going on. Over time people will stop obsessing over lightweight and will buy on the basis of sound alone. Manufacturers will have to up their game in this area and the killer amps of the future will probably be class D. [/quote] My point exactly - it's just not 'there' yet. Too much tinkering under the hood, too much BS around output power. There's still a while to go before consumer-level bass heads catch up with what the pro audio rigs are packin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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