Practice, motivation and inspiration

[Beer of the Bass]

I've played double bass on and off since my late teens, which means I've been at it for somewhere around 15 years. Most of my playing has been in folky genres or with singer-songwriter types. Although I listen to a fair bit of jazz, I've never felt I'm at the level to do more than wing it, which I've done from time to time. Orchestral music is not much of an interest. I had a few lessons when I first started and a few more several years ago, so while I'm no virtuoso I have enough technique not to hurt myself and to produce a tone I'm usually quite happy with.
Lately I've been without a steady musical project on the double bass, which is a situation I'm not used to. I've been finding it surprisingly difficult to keep my hand in, and when I do pull the bass out I find myself noodling over the same tired feeling phrases in a generally uninspired manner. I don't think I'm ready to just put it away and give it a rest for a while, so I've been thinking about how best to feel a bit more motivated and inspired to practice in a focused way. Thinking about things I could try, the following all seem like options;

-Sit down and figure out a self-study approach and try to stick to it. Maybe using a book or two - recommendations welcome.
-Make it a bit of a mission to find some new music and players to listen to in the hope that something gets me enthused
-Seek out the right teacher to give me a bit of a boot up the bum (in a friendly manner, of course).
-Blag my way into some sort of new musical situation, especially one which is slightly over my head. This sounds silly, but has worked for me before!

I'm sure some of you will have found themselves in the same situation at some point, so I'd be curious to hear what has worked to get you out of that rut and any advice on the above (or any other approaches worth looking at).

[sunburstjazz1967]

I can only focus if I've got a gig lined up :-(

Rufus Reid's evolving bassist book is good to start back at day one and keep going until you are as good as Rufus Reid!

[Jebo1]

You sound like you're in the same boat as me. I'm 34 and after almost 20 years of playing I needed a new challenge so picked up the DB and am doing it properly.

I learnt to read and all that early in my EB career, but pretty much forgot it all over a period. I'm now working through everything as a solid beginner with an aim to play 'proper' jazz. I happen to enjoy it, but if it's lot for you I can understand that.

It's all about aspirations I guess. I wrote down mine. I'm working through the DB, next stage is getting to grips with the piano.

Books wise I'm interested in suggestions here.

[Jebo1]

I was told to get the RR book so that's good to know it's the right thing for me.

[BassInMyFace]

I 100% understand this general "slump" feeling from time to time. Interested in hearing what other people come up with as inspiration. For me, I end up focusing on a new techniques like arco or looping or percussion based stuff which is like a short burst of "wow isn't this cool!" but then realising it's regular old plonking that will always be the most practical/useful and getting disheartened all over again. Hoping people have more musical based strategies for reinvigoration!?

[Gareth Hughes]

I would highly recommend heading over to www.discoverdoublebass.com

It's headed by Geoff Chalmers of this parish and I've found it a wonderful thing for inspiration and focus. There are many free tutorial videos, of about 10 minutes in length, that present one idea at a time for you to work on. Really can't go wrong it. And also - Geoff is readily available here or via that website if you need further advice.

[Jebo1]

Those videos are brilliant. Well produced, helpful and really informative.

[mtroun]

I have an interesting relationship with books. I'm quite a studious person in general, and I've ended up with a pretty big collection of most of the major guides to playing jazz and to playing the bass. Yet you can't really learn to play jazz from a book, and there's no mythical step by step guide that lays it all out there for you, it's a personal journey. That journey can include books or can basically ignore them.

I find books very useful as a teacher as they sometimes spell out particular approaches to practicing very well. Jerry Bergonzi's Inside Improvisation books are fantastic because they tackle a single aspect of improvisation in a very methodical way, which is a lesson in itself about persisting with something rather than being distracted by something new all of the time.

Books may help inspire you to get out of a slump, can I especially recommend 'How to Improvise' by Hal Crook and 'The Jazz Musician's Guide to Creative Practicing' by David Berkman, if you're looking for an idea farm. The only problem is you might find yourself wanting to just rush through everything, which is where a teacher comes in. It takes a leap of faith to keep doggedly doing the same thing but it's generally the only way to get good at something. You don't often see the results until months or years later unfortunately, which is why everyone is looking for a magic panacea (the right book, the right teacher etc etc)

The best way to approach practicing though, is the simplest, practice for your next gig. If you haven't got a gig then have one at home, every day. My teacher makes me do this, by choosing 10 tunes (two sets of 5) to play and work on long term until they are really comfortable, at which point tunes can be substituted for others. For each tune you play the melody, walk for a chorus, solo for a chorus, go to the out head. You may not want to play the head if you're practicing a fast tune. Anything that comes up that needs practicing (like nailing particular corners of tunes) will need a bit of further examination after the 'gig'. Good luck!

[sarah thomas]

I find having a teacher for regular lessons keeps me going. Lately, really slowing down my playing and practising over a drone (I use a Cello Drones app) gives a meditative experience and improves intonation and ears into the bargain. Geoff Chalmers site is excellent, as stated above. My favourite book is John Goldsby's 'The Jazz Book' as it's got good exercises, an overview of influential players and points you in the direction of some great listening.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1458684539' post='3009920']
-Make it a bit of a mission to find some new music and players to listen to in the hope that something gets me enthused
-Seek out the right teacher to give me a bit of a boot up the bum (in a friendly manner, of course).
-Blag my way into some sort of new musical situation, especially one which is slightly over my head. This sounds silly, but has worked for me before!
[/quote]
These three options are IMHO the best choices - if you have a good teacher you still need to self study, but the input of an objective third party guiding the direction of that study can really make a big difference to how effective it is.

I would suggest that you seek out and listen to music outside your musical comfort zone, as well as inspiring double bass players - maybe something like a bit of Ravi Shankar for example will give your ears and mind something new melodically and rhythmically to stimulate the synapses, and if you try to translate ideas from other instruments and styles onto your instrument, you'll certainly not be listening to the same old, same old, in your own playing.

I know you have stated little interest in orchestral music, but it wouldn't hurt to go check out some local rehearsals - amateur orchestras can vary quite a bit in terms of the music they tackle and how relaxed they are, if you want a ready solution to be in a room playing music with musicians who are passionate about music and in many cases quite badass within their skillset I wouldn't write this off as an option. Check this list out, Edinburgh has plenty of variety happening;
http://www.amateurorchestras.org.uk/oscotlan.htm
I didn't have any interest in orchestral playing until I checked out my local community orchestra, so YMMV on this.

[bassace]

As Sarah says, the Goldsby book is the one to have. It's inspirational and 'broad'. I have a RR book, if anyone would like it pl PM me and I'll send it FOC. BTW I hate practicing, don't do it much at all. When I arrive at a gig there's no set list and I haven't a clue what tunes will be called. I rate my iRealPro very highly, it's a lifesaver.

BTW children, don't take what I do as a good example. Keep practicing.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Gareth Hughes' timestamp='1458715891' post='3010039']
I would highly recommend heading over to www.discoverdoublebass.com

It's headed by Geoff Chalmers of this parish and I've found it a wonderful thing for inspiration and focus. There are many free tutorial videos, of about 10 minutes in length, that present one idea at a time for you to work on. Really can't go wrong it. And also - Geoff is readily available here or via that website if you need further advice.
[/quote]

I've checked out one or two of Geoff's videos, but it would certainly be worth delving into them a little more deeply. There's certainly a lot of useful looking stuff there, and I like Geoff's sound and approach.

[quote name='mtroun' timestamp='1458729086' post='3010178']
The best way to approach practicing though, is the simplest, practice for your next gig. If you haven't got a gig then have one at home, every day. My teacher makes me do this, by choosing 10 tunes (two sets of 5) to play and work on long term until they are really comfortable, at which point tunes can be substituted for others. For each tune you play the melody, walk for a chorus, solo for a chorus, go to the out head. You may not want to play the head if you're practicing a fast tune. Anything that comes up that needs practicing (like nailing particular corners of tunes) will need a bit of further examination after the 'gig'. Good luck!
[/quote]

Yes, I think the lack of a defined next gig is what I'm struggling with. I don't tend to work on sets of tunes in a focussed way unless they're for a gig, though sometimes when I've heard a tune that particularly grabs me I've spent some time figuring out what's going on. The last time I had a teacher he had me doing something similar; learning heads, getting down the basic harmony and transcribing some of the walking lines, which did help. I'm not great at doing that without someone prodding me each week though!

[quote name='sarah thomas' timestamp='1458733688' post='3010250']
I find having a teacher for regular lessons keeps me going. Lately, really slowing down my playing and practising over a drone (I use a Cello Drones app) gives a meditative experience and improves intonation and ears into the bargain. Geoff Chalmers site is excellent, as stated above. My favourite book is John Goldsby's 'The Jazz Book' as it's got good exercises, an overview of influential players and points you in the direction of some great listening.
[/quote]

I could see how practicing over a drone could help with intonation, I'll have a go at that. I got into it for a while a few years ago, when I was living by myself and my practicing didn't annoy anyone! Come to think of it, I should perhaps try and find somewhere away from the house to practice now and again, as I have a pernickety neighbour who doesn't exactly complain, but always reminds me that he can hear me, in what feels like a passive-aggressive manner. This makes me just a bit uncomfortable about playing a lot at home, as I'm aware of him listening!
Regarding books, I have Rufus Reid's book, which I should dig back out (I think it's still boxed after moving house). I'll see if I can find a copy of the Goldsby too.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Beer of the Bass

[The Jaywalker]

Thinking about the orchestral stuff - why bother with an orchestra? Get some tune/etude books, get the bow out and just play some pretty tunes.
The Goldsby book has got some great stuff in it and it's a good read as a textbook for bassists too. My only gripe - and it's a big one - is that's its heavily biased towards "tradition". Meaning that minor US players (or indeed guys who really couldn't play at all but we're in a historically important band ie Pops Foster) are given a lot of airtime and some of the greatest bassists in history are glossed over in one chapter entitled "The Europeans" (naturally, none of whom merit a transcription extract). Those feelings aside, it's a great book and I'd still recommend it to anyone!

PM me your email add and I'll PDF you some stuff that I've got on the jazz and classical vein ;-)

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1458748464' post='3010497']
PM me your email add and I'll PDF you some stuff that I've got on the jazz and classical vein ;-)
[/quote]

Cheers, I'll do that.☺

[JoeEvans]

I find that there's always something to do around scales, arpeggios and etudes, just slipping into a kind of meditational mode, over and over, smoothing out the lumps and scratches.

[neilp]

I couldn't let one comment go by without replying. Why bother with an orchestra? Because it's fantastic fun, it'll teach you more in an hour than you'd learn by yourself in a month, and playing with a bunch of other people will remind you to be a musician. As a great conductor I work with says "always be beautiful, even when you're wrong"

[The Jaywalker]

[quote name='neilp' timestamp='1458805684' post='3010961']
I couldn't let one comment go by without replying. Why bother with an orchestra? Because it's fantastic fun, it'll teach you more in an hour than you'd learn by yourself in a month, and playing with a bunch of other people will remind you to be a musician. As a great conductor I work with says "always be beautiful, even when you're wrong"
[/quote]

And I wasn't disputing any of that; merely suggesting to the OP that it could be enjoyable and instructional to practise and play classical arco material for pleasure and inspiration, without feeling the need/pressure to join an orchestra if it's not what he wants to do.

[mtroun]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1458748464' post='3010497']
My only gripe - and it's a big one - is that's its heavily biased towards "tradition". Meaning that minor US players (or indeed guys who really couldn't play at all but we're in a historically important band ie Pops Foster) are given a lot of airtime and some of the greatest bassists in history are glossed over in one chapter entitled "The Europeans" (naturally, none of whom merit a transcription extract). Those feelings aside, it's a great book and I'd still recommend it to anyone!
[/quote]
There has to be an end point to that section of the book, and it is a handbook for straight-ahead US jazz, which serves as a universal starting point for all the various directions jazz has gone since it ceased to be in the mainstream. You could argue that it neglects a lot of important later American players as well, but there's no way of being comprehensive. Since the average man in the street (and a lot of bass players) basically have no idea about who the different players who shaped the direction of jazz bass playing, I think Goldsby has to be applauded for doing so much research and digging so deep.

[The Jaywalker]

Yeah, I can pretty much agree with everything you're saying. It's an amazing piece of work - like I said, I'd recommend it to everyone; and often do. When did you last hear someone idolise Eddie Safranski or Bob Haggart? Eugene Wright? I just don't agree with putting minor bassists (albeit guys who played on popular recordings) to the fore at the expense of, for example, NHOP, Arild Andersen, Miroslav Vitous etc.
It's like Dave Liebman said "in Europe, they respect the tradition but they're not slaves to it..."

[mtroun]

This is an interesting topic for sure. Personally I think any study of jazz has to focus primarily on the USA, not to discount European players completely. Only European players who have made a massive impact on jazz worldwide could be worthy of inclusion. Lesser known USA players might be a little more lost in the mix but I think Goldsby is trying to represent the richness of the jazz tradition up to the 1970s, where things become a little bit more fragmented. There's no chapter on Christian McBride, Bob Hurst, Ray Drummond, Peter Washington, Dennis Irwin etc etc.

Stuart Nicholson did write an IMO preposterous book proposing that the vanguard of creativity in jazz moved to Europe after the 1960s. There's so many things wrong with that premise I don't even know where to start...

[The Jaywalker]

Fair enough to a degree...but this is about bass. It's far more important to consider a player's ability on and contribution to the instrument itself; rather than consider what albums they're on and who they've played with to gauge importance.

"Only European players who have made a massive impact on jazz worldwide could be worthy of inclusion..."
I have to vehemently disagree. If this is about bass; then artistic relativism and the "fame game" can't come into it. There's some spectacularly mediocre US bassists that are really popular with younger players (imo because what they do is readily achievable...and I'm not going to name names and open a can of worms) and who have international careers. Good luck to them...but does it really make them more "worthy" bassists than Arild Andersen or Mads Vinding. Ludicrous!

And I disagree with you on Stuart Nicholson's book. A lot of what guys in NYC are doing with non-swing stuff is only just catching up to what was going on in Europe 40 years ago. But that doesn't matter. I've always used the Buddhism comparison for Jazz. Wherever it goes, it picks up part of the local tradition and evolves into something new. Indian Buddhism + Tibetan Bon gives Vajryana. Mixes with Taoism and you get Dzogchen on the border with Tibet and Chan/Zen in China and Japan.
Jazz moved from New Orleans to Chicago and Kansas City. Different sounds. To NYC - different sounds. Bird threw in Bach and Hindemith and we get bop. Moves to Europe and joins with classical and Folk traditions - again, different sounds. Some folks want to keep it in 1958...too bad for them!

[Bilbo]

Great thread. Inspirational in itself.

For me, the 'secret', and it is not a secret at all, is to study things properly and not to dip in and out without properly dealing with the thing you have chosen to look at. I have two example. On double bass, I got a bow when I got a double bass and have never 'studied' it until fairly recently when I picked up the bow and the Neil Tarlton book. I spent a few days.weeks working on the bow for a few minutes a day (20?) and, before I knew it, I was actually playing the thing. Same with double thumbing. I am not a slap fan but, like many bass players, I feel the need to stay on top of new things. I tried double thumbing a few years ago and didn't make much of it and I only return to it for a few moments every now andthen but, the other day, I started playing something and it was there. My incremental input had borne fruit. I use reading as a means of generating practive pieces. BAch Cello Suites are a rich vein for practice and inspiration. Transcriptions of solos of any kind. Even other solo transcriptions to bass; they are often transcribed in a different key to bass but you can still practice them in the wrong key and learn (I read treble clef also so this is easier for me). Try looking for new players, new genres etc.

Personally, and I mean this, there is nothing more inspirational that a straight quarter note walking bass line. If all else fails, I just walk a blues with NO accents, just straight quarter notes. Lush!!!

[The Jaywalker]

Totally, Bilbo. A friend had a great teacher at Berklee whose advice for any student struggling with something was "Just turn up". Plug away at it, it'll get better. Works a treat!

[mtroun]

[quote name='The Jaywalker' timestamp='1458864085' post='3011761']

"Only European players who have made a massive impact on jazz worldwide could be worthy of inclusion..."
I have to vehemently disagree. If this is about bass; then artistic relativism and the "fame game" can't come into it. There's some spectacularly mediocre US bassists that are really popular with younger players (imo because what they do is readily achievable...and I'm not going to name names and open a can of worms) and who have international careers. G A lot of what guys in NYC are doing with non-swing stuff is only just catching up to what was going on in Europe 40 years ago. But that doesn't matter. I've always used the Buddhism comparison for Jazz. Wherever it goes, it picks up part of the local tradition and evolves into something new. Indian Buddhism + Tibetan Bon gives Vajryana. Mixes with Taoism and you get Dzogchen on the border with Tibet and Chan/Zen in China and Japan.
Jazz moved from New Orleans to Chicago and Kansas City. Different sounds. To NYC - different sounds. Bird threw in Bach and Hindemith and we get bop. Moves to Europe and joins with classical and Folk traditions - again, different sounds. Some folks want to keep it in 1958...too bad for them!
[/quote]

Ah, I don't think we'll agree on this. There is IMO a lot of hype expended on European jazz because of European jazz writers and the fact that Europe's jazz audience has remained while America's has moved on to other styles of music. As a result, American jazz went 'underground' (or more accurately, stayed in NYC like it had since the 40s, but got a lot less attention) The idea that NYC jazz players wanted to keep it in 1958 is one of those lazy criticisms that get bandied about but doesn't bear any scrutiny to the actual facts. It's usually used as a stick to beat the 80s young lions movement. People forget that Wynton Marsalis came out blazing with a lot of hype but then produced a series of classic albums where the rhythmic language of jazz got seriously expanded, and paved the way for musicians like Steve Coleman. I don't really see a precedent for that in European jazz. Europe produced some classic music during the 1970s, Kenny Wheeler, Eberhard, Jan Gabarek etc, all very nice, but I don't see it as significantly advanced over what was happening in the USA at the same time, when Woody Shaw, Steve Grossman, Keith Jarrett etc were at their creative height, just different. One is connected more to the jazz tradition, one to the classical, nothing wrong with that.

A lot of the reasons European critics have pointed to Europe is because critics tend to be in favour of novelty over evolution, and love classical influences, as they studied European classical music at university. There's all sorts of economic reasons that European musicians have done well as well, with generous state funding for music in Norway for example, funded by oil revenues. American jazz musicians had to scramble a lot when the popularity of the music suffered. Thus a lot of 1970s American jazz gets swept under the carpet. The 1980s saw a renewed interest, thanks to Marsalis and some others, some of whom were a bit more hype than substance, but that does happen.

I think saying that the achievements of the current crop of top NYC players are readily achievable is a bit preposterous. Are you thinking of players like Ben Street, Eric Revis, Larry Grenadier, Drew Gress, John Hebert, Ben Morgan, Joe Martin? I've watched some of these guys play and their ability is off the scale. I do think there are less self-conciously 'virtuoso' players in the USA because they are more aligned to the idea of being a supporting player, and also there is a tradition of being able to produce enough acoustic sound without an amp to hang with the drummer (and American musicians do seem to play LOUD) Some European (and some American) musicians pushed their string heights as low as possible and went for sheer speed over anything else, but that's not really much of an achievement if it doesn't sound musical in my opinion.

Anyway, we clearly see it a bit differently, but I do think there's an inherent critical bias towards European-sounding music and dismissal of American jazz as regressive, which doesn't bear out much scrutiny. Have you been to New York?

[mtroun]

Long, but covers it pretty well: http://jazztruth.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/blast-from-past-stuart-nicholsons.html