RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Yeah, you're right . Unfortunately;( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 IMHO any TV kills any kind of pub atmosphere. The trouble is there's an element of the public who like it. It's also cheaper than paying a band I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1459085660' post='3013396'] Playing the old foes and current World Champions in their own back yard going into the 2016 Euros so yes, a BIG game, even for a friendly. And that is 3 wins in a row against them, iirc... so yes.,. last nights result was huge...IMO. Most venues would capitilise on a footie crowd and start the gig late... but as always, needs comms... [/quote] I'm sure I could have googled it if I was that bothered. I went to a club to see some bands and on the way back walked past a pub we sometimes play. It was heaving and they had a live band. I assume they had started after the football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_the_bass Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 This thread is my first awareness that there was a match last night! I played a gig once when there was a big boxing match on. The stage was at one end of the room, the TVs at the other. We were obviously doing something right as everyone in then place was well in to our band and not paying attention to the screens. I, on the other hand, got to watch the whole fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingBollock Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 I had no idea there was a football match on either. Last year I went to a gig with five or six bands on and it was the same night that Wales played England at Rugby. It was a proper band venue with a proper stage, but there was a small telly behind the bar... I felt so sorry for some of the bands, they really went for it but hardly anyone gave them a glance, it was disgusting. I remember watching the singer of one of the bands on the floor in front of the stage, really giving it some welly, proper going for it, and then the bar erupted because Wales had scored, my heart bled for that dude. I saw him a bit later and he looked really sad, I want to give him a hug. There was some amazing talent on that night, but everyone preferred to watch a bunch of burly blokes groping each other in the mud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfretrock Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1459068844' post='3013202'] The Paul Pry in Rayleigh, in case any local bands want to know. If you have a gig booked there, I'd phone just before you leave to m̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶o̶n Cancel it. [/quote] fixed it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 [quote name='dood' timestamp='1459072407' post='3013240'] Join the MU, print off contracts for gigs, get landlords to sign. They cancel at short notice, their loss, or you take them to the cleaners. Too many music venues think that bands play 'for fun' and treat them like crap. The reason why this won't work though, is that too many bands don't value themselves enough to protect their investment. So the circle continues. #GetPaid [/quote] Entirely correct in principle, however, many landlords would just laugh and not book the band if you produced such a contract. If they did sign and you took action after an unreasonable cancellation, you would likely lose bookings at other venues, when the landlord told them about it. All this at a time when gigs are few and far between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 If there was payment agreed, I'd be Demanding payment. They booked a band & never gave adequate notice. I'd email both the landlord & copy in the brewers. If they fob you off, then as a BC collective, we could book every weekend as different bands to cover the next several months & then give notice the day before to them that the band can't make it. See the boot on the other foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1459105854' post='3013593'] If there was payment agreed, I'd be Demanding payment. They booked a band & never gave adequate notice. I'd email both the landlord & copy in the brewers. If they fob you off, then as a BC collective, we could book every weekend as different bands to cover the next several months & then give notice the day before to them that the band can't make it. See the boot on the other foot. [/quote] Or order a humongous round of drinks and quietly walk out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Riva Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 Whilst not working for or affiliated to any brewery I do have a bit of insight into the licensed trade through my work and it's an incredibly tough time out there at the moment (and has been for a number of years). It's worth bearing in mind that any landlord/venue committed to putting on live music these days probably does so in battle with an area manager being challenged on profit and loss by the brewery head office (who in turn will be being challenged on profit and loss). A number of the larger UK breweries see live music as "old hat" (unless it's an iconic venue or it's catering for a 'trendy'/student audience) and believe there are better ways to get punters through the doors and deliver a better return on profits - Sports TV being a big driver (even with the insanely high costs set by Sky) along with a focus on food sales (whether cheap food deals or what's on the menus etc.) - the return on food sales is hugely higher than those against drinks (and let's not forget the majority of breweries tie the venues into a deal where they supply the drinks at significantly higher cost than could be sourced elsewhere). Even if a landlord has any say as to what actually goes on at their venue they will be looking for anything that is hassle-free and returns the best/biggest profit. As I say, it's tough out there so spare a thought for those that are still trying to keep music live. The above said, there is no excuse for poor/late communication and if I were the OP I'd be feeding back to the venue advising on the consequences (to the band) of being told so late in the day and ensuring the venue is made aware of other means of contact moving forward... whilst looking to book their next gig(s), obviously.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 That's the whole point of doing pub gigs verses function gigs. Either party can pull out at a moments notice. It's why the pay is so low and the terms so loose. Easy gigs, no pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted March 27, 2016 Share Posted March 27, 2016 [quote name='arthurhenry' timestamp='1459103173' post='3013579'] Entirely correct in principle, however, many landlords would just laugh and not book the band if you produced such a contract. If they did sign and you took action after an unreasonable cancellation, you would likely lose bookings at other venues, when the landlord told them about it. All this at a time when gigs are few and far between. [/quote] Exactly - Which leads us back round the circle. If bands did care, every band would have a contract - then in the case of 'wrong doing' they would be quick to support each other and boycott the venue for being sh*tty and others venues who treated said bands the same way. It'd never happen though and that's why bands are still being paid exactly the same amount that they were when I first started, yet the cost of living alone has gone up greatly. It only cheeses me off because I hate seeing all this hard work and energy that my fellow musicians put in being screwed over. - Yes there are great venues out there and they deserve to thrive, but the whole live music culture is a mess and plenty of venues take advantage of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) Guy's, over here and with my band,if we find there's a big game on the time were scheduled to perform we will call and cancel if the owner cancels that's cool to. Reschedule the gig. Blue Edited March 28, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1459070756' post='3013225'] Had his work email been the only contact details she had been given I would agree with you, but it wasn't. She had home landline, mobile, home email as well. Didn't even think to consider what she was doing. No-one in the band is particularly interested in sport of any kind, so we wouldn't know what events were on and when. I wonder how far you need to go to nursemaid these venues. And yes, Pete, spot on - no fee and blamed the brewery. [/quote] If your in the bar band business it's a good idea to know about these sporting events and how they can effect your bookings. Blue Edited March 28, 2016 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1459114307' post='3013685'] That's the whole point of doing pub gigs verses function gigs. Either party can pull out at a moments notice. It's why the pay is so low and the terms so loose. Easy gigs, no pressure. [/quote] Exactly... it cuts both ways. Having said that last minute cancels are very annoying, and this lack of business focus seems typical of some pubs. Which is why you might want to review which pubs you play. Around here most pubs get a hand from the Brewery..and one Brewery in particular has pretty much saved the local music scene, IMO and now sponsors bigger gigs. They certainly buy into the value of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 [quote name='dood' timestamp='1459114933' post='3013690'] Exactly - Which leads us back round the circle. If bands did care, every band would have a contract - then in the case of 'wrong doing' they would be quick to support each other and boycott the venue for being sh*tty and others venues who treated said bands the same way. It'd never happen though and that's why bands are still being paid exactly the same amount that they were when I first started, yet the cost of living alone has gone up greatly. It only cheeses me off because I hate seeing all this hard work and energy that my fellow musicians put in being screwed over. - Yes there are great venues out there and they deserve to thrive, but the whole live music culture is a mess and plenty of venues take advantage of that. [/quote] Which is why I always say too many venues and too many bands... it perpetuates crap deals and money and conditions as there is always others desperate to fill the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 (edited) good band will rise to the surface, there's 2 or 3 really good bands in my area(all mod/ska type bands), never short of gigs because they get people into the pub to watch them, if your band is playing to emptyish rooms too often it should tell you something. Crap venues will close down pretty quickly, tbh most bad venues are bad pubs anyway who are desperately trying anything to stay open. Gone a bit off topic here, sorry Edited March 28, 2016 by PaulWarning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Dood has a point and as a union member we will always use contracts, but we do not play pubs and I don't think they would want to sign up to the conditions, but that does not stop you producing your own contracts just to have the fee stated and start and finish times. I would certainly boycott the the place in future, and spread the word in favour of other pubs, they'll get the message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Sad fact of life that major sports events take precedence. Little point in pursuing the money - even if you get it, the place probably won't book you again. Perhaps best to check when a job is offered whether it clashes with a big game or similar and suggest to the venue that a different night would be better if so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoRhino Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Last weekend we played in Balloch near Loch Lomond. Arrived at 7pm to load in to be told we weren't to play until the Rugby finished at 9:30pm. It was France v England. Pub was packed with lots of Frenchmen in Scottish tops who I'm pleased to say stayed on afterwards to enjoy the band. PS. Well done England on winning everything in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepbass5 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 We actually had a late Club booking for Saturday, 6 days notice as a band had let them down . We got there and the guy said don't think their will be many in tonight because of all the sport and the weather. We started the 1st set to one guy, end of the set we still only had two families. After the match others came from the bar but we still only got 30 tops Clubs are struggling too, but will subsidise bands on a Saturday from bar takings though the week. But it is mostly duos and discos now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cameltoe Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 We had a gig cancelled last week because of the six nations England v France match. Cancelled the day before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barneyg42 Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 [quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1459161975' post='3013927'] Sad fact of life that major sports events take precedence. Little point in pursuing the money - even if you get it, the place probably won't book you again. Perhaps best to check when a job is offered whether it clashes with a big game or similar and suggest to the venue that a different night would be better if so. [/quote] I wonder if some of these venues get a cash allocation from the brewery anyway and "lose" it somehow! Very easy to fake a receipt! Cynical? Me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 I've only ever done a handful of gigs for managed premises - without fail they've been a total pia. Companies, by and large, seem to employ total w*nkers who think their role is to be a dense as possible. (most succeed without the need to try) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 [quote name='dood' timestamp='1459114933' post='3013690'] It only cheeses me off because I hate seeing all this hard work and energy that my fellow musicians put in being screwed over. - Yes there are great venues out there and they deserve to thrive, but the whole live music culture is a mess and plenty of venues take advantage of that. [/quote] Nailed as usual by dood. Maybe we need to go back to promoting events on our own terms and avoiding the trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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