Badass upgrade

[Nicko]

I'm playing an American special precision which comes with a vintage style top loader bridge.

I guess the first question is should I consider an upgrade to a badass?

The second is could I. Can I retrofit in the original holes without redrilling?

I had a few problems with the action "self correcting" but that was cured with a dab of clear nail varnish. Nothing wrong with the old bridge other than that, Its just I cant help feeling the bent metal plate hasn't got any mass to it and there should be a benefit in something heavier. Cosmetically the standard fit bridge does look a bit cheap as well.

[keefbaker]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1459255525' post='3014780']
Can you elaborate on "action self correcting"?
[/quote]

I think he's talking about bridge saddle slippage syndrome. I had it on my bass vi

[discreet]

In my view 'high mass' or 'full contact' or any of the other gimmicks used to sell bridges are, er... gimmicks. I've found absolutely no difference in tone or sustain or ever heard any of the supposed benefits from 'upgrading' a bridge.

The only two good reasons for changing a bridge are:

1) The bridge design is hampering your playing, or
2) You like the visual appearance of another bridge.

I really like the Babicz bridge, it's a fantastic bit of engineering, looks great, adjusts really well, it's very comfortable for palm muting, you can lock the action and intonation after adjustment and it's a direct replacement for a Fender bridge. But it doesn't 'sound' any better than the Bent Bit Of Tin, which is tried and tested. I would recommend blue Loctite on the saddle screws to stop the bridge adjusting itself, but that's all you need to do. There is no tone benefit in something heavier. It will merely add weight to your bass and subtract weight from your wallet.

Edited March 29, 2016 by discreet

[Muppet]

Can you? Yes you can if you use a Badass II - it's a five screw fitting, the same as yours. The problem here will be finding a Badass as they're not made any more. You may be better off sourcing a Fender Hi Mass or Gotoh 201 or Babicz.

Should you? Some say yes, some say no. I've basses with and without and can't notice any difference apart from looks and even there it depends on whether you think the big lumps detract from the overall aesthetic.

[discreet]

[quote name='Muppet' timestamp='1459256206' post='3014799']
Should you? Some say yes, some say no. I've basses with and without and can't notice any difference apart from looks and even there it depends on whether you think the big lumps detract from the overall aesthetic.
[/quote]

That's another point... I put a Babicz on my 76 Precision and it was great, but in the end my OCD wouldn't allow a non-period, non-Fender component on my vintage bass... so it had to go.

Edited March 29, 2016 by discreet

[Cato]

I put a Babicz on my Squier jazz as part of my first effort at pimping a bass. It's a great bit of engineering, no chance of the saddles slipping, no sharp edges and with only one height screw per saddle it's probably slighty quicker to set the action. Looks good too.

Made absolutely no difference to the sound of the bass though, at least not to my ears. The 'full contact' bit is a bit of crock as well as it sits on the earth wire which prevents the bridge having the advertised 'full contact' with the body, lots of contact maybe, but not full.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Cato

[peteb]

We've had this debate on BC many times before and unlike others here I would say that there is a small but noticeable (to you) difference and you will get a little more sustain. Whether that is what you want is another matter!

I have changed the bridge on every Fender that I have ever had, with the exception of the P bass I currently own whose previous owner saved me the trouble and kindly fitted a badass before I got it...!

Edited March 29, 2016 by peteb

[Lozz196]

I`ll echo the above posts, yes you can - I thnk it`s the Badass 2 that fits 5-hole Fenders. Soundwise, well I find that they seem to tighten the lows and highs, and slightly scoop the sound - so to me reduce what a Precision is famed for, but enhance what a Jazz is famed for. Would I notice it in the mix, or be able to tell on anyone elses bass, no. Just the minor difference I noticed when I`ve done it on my own basses. I do think they look quite, well, Badass really, but I prefer my Fenders to look stock, and have only original Fender parts on them.

[Twincam]

The babicz bridge sometimes helps if you have any string rattling at the bridge or funny overtones coming from that area.
But it will sound pretty much the same I'm of the thought that there only very very minor or no gains to be had with a new bridge, if the old bridge was in good working order. I also think the same for string through. Why because there so much pressure and tension on the string at the string through break point any vibration past the saddle is non existent.

[Nicko]

[quote name='keefbaker' timestamp='1459255670' post='3014784']
I think he's talking about bridge saddle slippage syndrome. I had it on my bass vi
[/quote]

This, if you mean the height adjusting grubscrew is what I mean by self adjusting. I think it was a vibration related issue.

[Nicko]

Well, since the general consensus is theres no real point I could spend the money on something more sensible. Thanks for all the input.

[Roger2611]

I retro fit the Gotoh 201 bridges to all my gigging Precision basses, I don't trust the standard bridges after having had a saddle screw unwind mid gig on a couple of occasions, I don't know whether is improves the sound in any way but it improves my peace of mind, the Gotoh is a direct swap, it can be easily be undone and if a high mass bridge is good enough for Nate Mendel's Precision it is good enough for mine.

A cheaper fix is to put a drop of clear nail varnish where the screw meets the saddle, in theory it will hold the screws tight but will crack under adjustment thus holding the saddle in place until you need to adjust it, I have done it with my 79 Precision and the saddle screws have not moved since but as I have not needed to adjust them again so I have not tested the latter bit yet!

I think they are a worthwhile investment

[discreet]

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1459273066' post='3015032']
Well, since the general consensus is theres no real point I could spend the money on something more sensible. Thanks for all the input.
[/quote]

Wise decision. Once again I'd recommend blue Loctite for wayward saddle screws. Not as strong as the red stuff, it'll hold your screws firm but it's easy to break the grip with a normal driver or hex key when necessary.

Edited March 29, 2016 by discreet

[Skol303]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1459255810' post='3014789']
I really like the Babicz bridge, it's a fantastic bit of engineering...[/quote]

+1.

I have a Babicz on my Cort fiver and it's a mighty fine bridge. As you say, nowt to do with 'sustain' and all that guff... but everything to do with it being a nicely engineered lump of metal.

I'd highly recommend them on that basis. But perhaps not for all basses

Edited March 29, 2016 by Skol303

[Smythe]

I've tried nearly all post market bridges and The best Fender fit upgrade is the Schaller 2000. It's adjustable in all ways. String spacing, saddle height, locking function etc. Stainless steel , the only bridge I've ever noticed an improvement in sustain and tone. Closely followed by an aluminium hipshot a-style. Never noticed any difference/improvement with a babicz FCH or a badass 2.

[Delberthot]

I was going to suggest a Gotoh 201 bridge as well or if you want it to still look like a regular one the Gotoh 203 is pretty substantial while still looking original

[LewisK1975]

There's a new cheaper alternative to the unavailable BAII - it's called the OMEGA bass bridge - cant be got quite cheaply from the states on Ebay (import duty will add some though):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-Omega-Badass-Bass-II-Style-Bridge-for-Fender-Precision-Jazz-2-1-4-Chrome-/141868799307?hash=item21080a154b:g:yokAAOSwWnFV9Ej1

Bass centre online also sell them, but more expensive:

http://www.basscentre.com/bass-accessories/omega-4-string-bass-bridge.html

[neepheid]

I have long suspected that the main appeal of the Badass bridge is having a component on one's bass with the word BADASS stamped in it

[Beedster]

I've installed a lot of bridges over the years and there's only one rule that appears to apply: whether it 'works' depends entirely on the bass. Sometimes a high mass bridge makes a huge difference, other times none at all, and I really don't think there's a pattern across basses. In short, the idiosyncrasies of some individual instruments are such that a high mass bridge either adds something desirable or offsets something undesirable, whilst those of other instruments determine that the added mass or whatever other characteristic the bridge brings makes no discernible difference. It's really not rocket science, just chance.

So, to cut to the chase, you need to try one on your bass to know for sure. Buy one used on here, they come up frequently. If it makes no difference, sell if for what you paid.

[KevB]

Put a badass III on my thru-strung jazz as I happened to find one quite cheap on eBay at the time. However judging the tonal 'before and after' had little difference so I didn't bother changing the BBOT on the thru-strung precision I got a couple of years back. This is the jazz :

[URL=http://s30.photobucket.com/user/KevB64/media/US%20jazz/BAIII.jpg.html][IMG]http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c307/KevB64/US%20jazz/BAIII.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[thebassist]

My '72 Jazz was all original but it had absolutely no sustain - I put a Badass II on it to replace the rusty original bridge and it's made a hell of a lot of difference.

My '64 Jazz is all original but sustains just fine and the bridge on this one is rusty bridge too.

No idea...

[jacko]

I looked at Badass years ago (1982) then fitted a Schaller. As Smythe says it's infinitely adjustable and everything stays put when you want it to. Am I right in thinking you'd have to cut grooves In the Badass saddles yourself once you've decided on the spacing?

[KevB]

Depends which Badass you got hold of. The original ones had 'blank' saddles that you filed accordingly with needle files. The later version had pre cut saddles with the option of using about 3 different positions. From my experience the string tends to naturally 'want' to go into one of the 3 positions and there isn't much point trying to force it into an unnatural alignment.

[rushbo]

I've got a Badass on my Jazz and it does a great job. As for it being a significant upgrade on a BBOT, I'm not sure. Aesthetically, I think they're an improvement. I have a Schaller on my Precision which gives you the option to alter string spacing too. To sum up...go for a Badass if you see one at a sensible price as they are lovely bits of metal.

[dincz]

If a particular bridge reduces sustain, it's either bendy or it's not fixed solidly to the body (the high mass bit).