The complete set up

[mtroun]

I don't know about everyone else, but my knowledge of DB setup isn't the greatest. Recently I had my bass guitar completely set up, with frets levelled, string heights and intonation all completely overhauled and it came back playing fantastically.
With so many more variables contributing towards optimum setup, do you think it's possible to get a double bass playing as well as it can in the same way?
Since I bought my Bryant 3 and a bit years ago, it's gone through a few different bridges(mostly due to poor choices on my part) and sound posts and had quite a bit of planing done to the fingerboard, as well as having a seam repaired, but it's quite a rattly beast at the moment, particularly the open A (I don't know if it's a dead spot, it's been a problem for a while, with the luthier doing work on the nut and fingerboard to little effect). I reckon the messing about with different strings probably hasn't helped, but has anyone had a miraculous experience with setup? My luthier is a well regarded fellow on these forums and amongst the playing community, so I don't think it's anything to do with him. Is it a case of sticking plasters or will my instrument need more serious work to play at its optimum? Your suggestions please.

[Owen]

I often wonder about set up stuff. I am happy with how mine plays, but there is always that nagging thought that runs "I wonder if it could be even better". The trouble is that I live in luthier desert so am unlikely to ever get to know.

[JoeEvans]

I'm dropping mine off on Monday for a set-up with high hopes of ending up with a slightly more rich bottom end and less of a dead spot midway up the A string, but I'm not really expecting miracles - it seems as though it's something of a dark art, and it may well be that the things that I want to change are just the fundamental character of the instrument.

[The Jaywalker]

If you can find a luthier who really understands Jazz bass setups then this would be a positive step. Made a massive difference for me.
Things to consider off the top of my head:-

Nut height: should only be able to fit one business card under the strings at the nut. Any higher and the bass will feel tighter and be more difficult to play with the left hand in lower positions.

Bridge curvature: orchestral bassists need to have more of an angle between the strings for arco clearance. If playing jazz with this setup it's more effort to move between strings with both LH and RH. Making sure your bridge curvature is a flatter Jazz setup makes a big difference to playability.

Fingerboard scoop: if this is too extreme then the action between 4th position and the break will be higher than it needs to be.

Sound post: can make an enormous difference to how your bass speaks and the overall tone. Getting it right for your sound preference is a major benefit. Some luthiers will want to change the post position if you start using different strings - it's a seriously dark art.

Overall Tension:
If the bass feels tight, maybe in comparison with other basses you've tried with the same strings etc, then there's stuff that can be done with the after length and tailpiece wire choice. I changed from metal wire to the Velvet tailpiece cord and the bass feels a bit less tense and more resonant. It's supposedly some "special" material but my old luthier swore blind it was just kevlar. Usual marketing guff, I guess ;-)

Bridge adjusters and string action:
Make sure they operate in a wide enough window so you can really experiment with different string heights. And do that. Really experiment. Get your action as low as is sonically and tonally comfortable. Ignore the "high action right: lower action wrong" nonsense - if your bass is easier to play, then you'll play and sound better!
Important thing to consider with string height is the sound post setup - it will vary a bit depending on your chosen height.

The bottom line is, yes, a good setup on your bass will make an enormous difference to its playability and sound. It can be like a different bass afterwards.

Edited April 3, 2016 by The Jaywalker

[Owen]

This is all stuff I agree with, but who do you use?

[bassace]

There's some good stuff here. My Bryant is a sweet little bass - why is it 'always' Bryants? - just the right size for playing and getting around to gigs. But I had a problem with the sound. It was good in quiet situations but when I turned up there was too much thump and not enough note, if you get my drift. There was also a clack on the E.

I reckoned Laurence Dixon would be the man; apprenticed to Roger Dawson and being a London luthier he would have a lot of experience of 'working' basses and the needs of their owners. So he put the bass on his bench and gave me a masterclass in what needed to be done and how the sound/playability could be improved, plus some local seam regluing.

Two weeks later the bass is just a revelation. It's got a nice bright easy sound, even across the strings and is very nice to play. The fingerboard was reprofiled, action slightly lowered and I noticed from a previous mark that the sound post was moved all of 22 mm. But the biggest difference was to the bridge. This was replaced by a larger pattern as the previous feet were such that the E side didn't get onto the bass bar. And the top was profiled to match the strings coming off the end of the fingerboard to such an extent that it is very markedly asymmetric.

All for £400 and I am very happy. Hope this helps.

[Beer of the Bass]

My bass has held it's setup quite well since the last full setup 8 years ago (new fingerboard, bridge and soundpost), requiring only minor tweaks since then. For a bass which looks a bit patched-up it's a nice player! That was done by Ken McDonald, a local jazz bassist and luthier who has retired now. I was impressed at the level of understanding that went into it; he asked quite a few questions about what I was going for and what my pizz/arco needs were, then after the initial setup I went round to try it and he adjusted it a little more to suit my playing (a little more scoop under the E-string IIRC).
At some point I'd like to do some proper reading on the subject (like the Traeger book on bass setup and repair) and learn a bit more about it. I've certainly noticed how crucial the bridge/soundpost relationship can be, as once my bridge moved less than 1cm further from the soundpost when swapping strings over, and I was surprised at how different the bass sounded.

[Owen]

Thanks

It is names I have been needing. I have dropped him an email about a visit later in the year.

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1459671583' post='3018445']
I reckoned Laurence Dixon would be the man;
[/quote]

[Marty Forrer]

I want to give a big heads-up to Deuce Bridges. For years I put up with uneven string performance, regardless of what strings I used. Tried the soundpost in all sorts of positions, and I had adjusters so I tried all manner of string heights. I fitted a D2 Deuce Bridge, and voila! There it was... strings totally even both in tension and volume! Then I noticed that acoustically it was louder and punchier. My main band rehearses acoustically, and my band mates all commented how much clearer and easier to hear it was. I guess it wont suit purists because of its appearance, but I reckon it's the best thing since way before sliced bread!

[mtroun]

Interesting to hear everyone's feedback.
Like I said, my bass has had a fair amount of work done to it, but in stages. Most recently it had another sound post cut and had some work done to the fingerboard. Before that, it had quite a major setup, with a new bridge fitted, fingerboard planing, new nut etc.
It's quite possible that I need to a) decide exactly what strings I am going to have on my bass give it to my luthier for a significant amount of time so that he can really give it a complete run over.
I think in some ways the problem is that it goes to the luthier when there is a problem, rather than just to get it tuned up to be as good as it can be.

[mtroun]

[quote name='bassace' timestamp='1459671583' post='3018445']
My Bryant is a sweet little bass - why is it 'always' Bryants? - just the right size for playing and getting around to gigs. But I had a problem with the sound. It was good in quiet situations but when I turned up there was too much thump and not enough note, if you get my drift. There was also a clack on the E.
[/quote]
If I take your meaning correctly, it's always Bryants because they are cheap! And Paul, legend that he is, largely makes them for fun, so it seems to be worth taking them to more of a professional luthier. I find the voice of my Bryant to be very pleasant indeed, but the bridge originally fitted wasn't much good and the fingerboard has required quite a lot of corrective work.

[Hector]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1459689411' post='3018623']
Thanks

It is names I have been needing. I have dropped him an email about a visit later in the year.
[/quote]

Go to Laurence! He's worked wonders with my bass in terms of both sound a feel.

[The Jaywalker]

In terms of Bryant's being somehow substandard, I heard an interesting tale. He made Panormo style basses. I heard of an orchestral pro who took his original Panormo to Bryant and asked for a copy of that bass - and was so impressed with his new Bryant he sold the original Panormo and moved house with the proceeds.

[bassace]

Yes, let's not get too derailed and be too sniffy about Paul Bryant, especially from those who have never played one of his basses. When you consider that a top English bass will set you back anything between 12k to 15k you can get a Bryant new for 6k. Or at least you could when Paul was still making them. But that difference in price is in no way a true reflection of the relative quality. Paul has roughly 100 basses out there mainly used in orchestras where they are very highly rated. I loved mine from the get go but just felt there was something extra in it that needed bringing out. As I mentioned in my previous post, I reckoned that Laurence had a lot of experience in what a great many jazz musicians needed to nail that certain tone. There are other bass makers who are capable of making beautiful basses but if their customers are in the main orchestral their basses may not be optimised for jazz without a set up by a luthier who has experience in that field.

Edited April 5, 2016 by bassace

[mtroun]

Apologies if I sounded like I was having a go at Paul, my bass is definitely not a substandard instrument and I have played many more expensive instruments (and I mean a lot more expensive) that couldn't come close to it and Roger is dead right that getting the setup handled by someone who knows what you want out of your instrument is important. Paul has prioritised making basses over the setup work that keeps most luthiers busy, and is quite a prolific maker by any standard! Mine is number 101.

I notice that Paul still has one soloist model for sale on his website, it might well be the last one!

[spencer.b]

My Bryant took a lot of work to get to its best too , I recently had the board planed again by laurence and it feels and sounds great again . It does seem to be an ongoing thing though particularly with new basses, I've got an old Germany that's a lot lower maintenance

[JoeEvans]

Just on set-up work, I got my bass back from Edward Gaut in Bristol yesterday, after he re-shaped the bridge to lower the action (and to slightly raise the crown for easier bowing) and put a new soundpost in, in a somewhat different position. The work seems very neat and accurate, the action is just right and the sound has been really improved - stronger and more responsive, especially at the bottom end. I would definitely recommend him for this kind of thing.

[mtroun]

[quote name='spencer.b' timestamp='1459893711' post='3020718']
My Bryant took a lot of work to get to its best too , I recently had the board planed again by laurence and it feels and sounds great again . It does seem to be an ongoing thing though particularly with new basses, I've got an old Germany that's a lot lower maintenance
[/quote]
Good to know. Do you think guts make fingerboard work more complex? I've been back and forth with different steel, synthetic and gut strings, but I found the guts the most rewarding but also frustrating in terms of fingeboard noise.

[spencer.b]

Yeah I found guts more problematic with board noise and I expected guts to start fraying but mine didn't they went dead and creaky sounding, I then stopped using that bass for a bit and when I took it to laurence for a check up he suggested planing the board again and said the guts had worn it particularly the g. I'd thought steels would be harder on the board but maybe not?
I'm on evah now but I'm gonna go gut D and G,which brand guts have you tried mtroun?

[mtroun]

I had gamut lyon D and G (both medium and varnished) and I was using Evah Pirazzi Weich E and A with them. It went for some fingerboard work because I found the first couple of positions really creaky like you say, the D in particular was hard work. I took them off not long after, put the action down and put Oliv D and G on. At that point the Evah E and A sounded totally dead so I put spiro E and A on.

I've recently replaced everything with a new set of garbos. I've kept my bridge adjusters as low as they can go, with the low tension of the garbo, they aren't really that low.

I'm guessing guts can eat up your board quicker because they oscillate more widely? Just a guess.

[spencer.b]

Yeah that makes sense , I had gamut too and I liked them . My neighbour is a pro straight player who does early music so I'm gonna quiz him tomorrow about the other gut brands

[mtroun]

Let me know about what he says. As it stands, I am moving in the direction of switching the Garbo G to a Gamut Lyon in the future, so I can bow again!

[Jebo1]

[quote name='JoeEvans' timestamp='1460012425' post='3021676']
Just on set-up work, I got my bass back from Edward Gaut in Bristol yesterday, after he re-shaped the bridge to lower the action (and to slightly raise the crown for easier bowing) and put a new soundpost in, in a somewhat different position. The work seems very neat and accurate, the action is just right and the sound has been really improved - stronger and more responsive, especially at the bottom end. I would definitely recommend him for this kind of thing.
[/quote]

Agreed. I live around the corner from Edward and he's sorted my DB out, fitted a new soundpost, strings and done some tidying up. Bass plays lovely now!