Flappy E string on Squier CV Precision

[olliedf89]

Hi there lovely low enders,
I recently bought a Squier CV 60's P (the Pino Palladino signature look-a-like) from my local guitar shop, a bass I'd liked since I'd seen it in there a few years ago, and long story short, it's exactly the same model that had recently been returned by a guitarist who bought it but wasn't using it. (He'll never know what he's missing )

Anyway. It's perfect, especially for the price, but it has a set up issue with the E string.

The E seems very loose which is causing it to be flappy, so it clacks against the pickup when I play, producing a pop which is really frustrating. I know it hits the pup because the string has a scratch mark where it hits the pole pieces. When it does this it also seems to loose low end on the E string and it starts to phase very slightly. I wondered for a while if it was the pickup, but I'm guessing it's more likely to be a set up issue.


I know I play hard, but I don't have this issue on any other basses or on the other strings on this bass. I've had a play about with a few aspects of the bass to try and fix it but haven't eliminated the problem without creating another one (ie, ridiculously high action).
When I use a pick, it doesn't exactly do the same thing, I assume because when I use fingers on the strings I push it down to the pup rather than with a pick where I push it across the pup.

I've lowered the pickup, but that didn't really help without drastically altering the string output volumes. I've switched between 3 different sets of brand new and old strings, including flats and rounds and varying gauges, but that didn't seem to make any difference.

I've adjusted the saddle height but with no real elimination without crazy high action. The only thing I've done so far that's made a difference is made the saddle shorter, (so using a screwdriver to move it lower) but that still hasn't completely eliminated the issue and I don't feel it's the 'correct' solution either way.


I would drop it to a local tech, but I don't really have the 30/40 quid to throw away on it and I really should learn this stuff myself!! I've searched on the 'net but the only responses I've seen across various forums have essentially been 'just give it a set up' or 'take it to a tech', but I'm keen to know what the issue is myself so I can fix it again if ever I encounter it.

If anyone could suggest anything, I'd be eternally grateful!

Cheers
Ollie

[bobbytodd]

try changing the strings to ones with a higher tension

[ikay]

If a string is 'phasing' that's an indicator that it's too close to the pickup. Can you post some pics showing the existing setup (string height and pickup height) on both the E and G side?

Edited April 5, 2016 by ikay

[olliedf89]

Here's a link to a few quick snaps I just took
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/atgns3nke0j0zcr/AAAGydF0IKNlhYZfAgFqLk93a

I'll try and do a few more decent ones after work!
Thanks!

[EssentialTension]

If the string is hitting the pickup then the pickup is too high - or the string is too low at the bridge saddle - but commonly you should set the action and intonation before setting the pickup height.

If you use higher tension strings then you can usually manage to set the pickup higher without the strings making contact.

A Precision bass pickup has the advantage of being able to adjust pickup height differently on the two sides.

[jrixn1]

[quote name='olliedf89' timestamp='1459790803' post='3019678']
The E seems very loose which is causing it to be flappy, so it clacks against the pickup when I play, producing a pop which is really frustrating.
[/quote]

This doesn't address your problem directly, but in the meantime you could try putting electrical/masking tape over the pickup. This might stop the pop noise.

[ikay]

Looking at pic #5, from the reflection of the strings on the pickup cover, the pickup looks too high to me.

As EssentialTension says it's normal practice to set your action and intonation first and then set the pickup height. Try lowering the pickup (both sides/all screws) until it's clearly not interfering with anything (ie. a bit too low). Then do a basic setup - neck relief, saddle height, intonation - to get it playing as you like it. Lastly, adjust the pickup in small increments to get an even output across the strings. Start with the E string side and make sure the pickup is set below the point at which the string hits the pole pieces when playing normally. Then adjust the other screws to balance output with the E string.

Remember that any recommended settings you find for pickup height/string clearance (eg. Fender setup guide says 2.8mm on E side and 2mm on G side) are measured from the bottom of the string to the top of the pole piece [u]while fretting the string at the last fret[/u]. The unfretted string clearance is much greater.

Pickups don't necessarily need to be maxed as close to the string as possible to get good tone, winding them down a bit can open up the tone and give a more even string balance.

[olliedf89]

Wow thanks for all the help guys. Ikay, that's made a lot of sense and is more straight to the point than most answers I've seen on the net, thank you. I shall get stuck in tonight. Bit of a novice on doing a complete set up but no time like the present to learn I guess!

[EssentialTension]

There's many setup videos on Youtube. I like this one.


http://youtu.be/cIzV9462xeE


http://youtu.be/D4MdWzN_100


You can get away with not having all of those tools but they are handy.

[olliedf89]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1459938117' post='3020991']
There's many setup videos on Youtube. I like this one.

[/quote]

Haven't seen those vids before, thank you, I followed them as best I could with the tools I got and I think I might have sorted the problem. Either way I've given it a decent set up now! Thanks

[olliedf89]

Yeah I thought I'd fixed it, but apparently not. Just come back to it and it's playing fine except that E string, every time you hit it with anything other than a light tap it vibrates all over the place, initial attack looses low end before it starts phasing. Almost like very hard dip & swell limiting, but without a compressor. I'm really not sure what I'm doing wrong but I'm keen to try and understand. The string is only a 105 so I'm finding it hard to believe that the gauge is wrong as it's not anything crazy.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='olliedf89' timestamp='1460297678' post='3024428']
Yeah I thought I'd fixed it, but apparently not. Just come back to it and it's playing fine except that E string, every time you hit it with anything other than a light tap it vibrates all over the place, initial attack looses low end before it starts phasing. Almost like very hard dip & swell limiting, but without a compressor. I'm really not sure what I'm doing wrong but I'm keen to try and understand. The string is only a 105 so I'm finding it hard to believe that the gauge is wrong as it's not anything crazy.
[/quote]

Could the E string be broken somehow inside the winding?

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1460297763' post='3024429']
Could the E string be broken somehow inside the winding?
[/quote]

+1 - the only other thought - very unlikely with a .105 gauge E string, - is that you've somehow tuned it an octave lower (much more likely with thicker strings).

[ikay]

Very wierd indeed. Can you post a video?

[olliedf89]

[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1460300076' post='3024447']


+1 - the only other thought - very unlikely with a .105 gauge E string, - is that you've somehow tuned it an octave lower (much more likely with thicker strings).
[/quote]

That is almost exactly how it feels but I am 100% sure it's not. I've tried different strings with it and they're all the same.it's probably just a set up problem I'm unaware of.


Out right now but I'll post a video this evening. You'll all probably tell me it's something simple! Or that I am something simple!

[geoffbyrne]

Strings sometimes do this if they have managed to get a twist in them between nut & bridge when being put on.

Try taking it completely off and holding it up by one end to let any twist come out, then re-stringing it while carefully making sure no twist is re-introduced during the installation. You never know, it may work. Also, costs nothing but time.

G.

Edited April 12, 2016 by geoffbyrne

[mcnach]

It's not tuned one octave too low, is it?
Nah... that would be so floppy it wouldn't even vibrate, I'd imagine...

Really strange, I can't picture it in my head. Any chance of a quick video?

[luckydog]

Try a 110 or 120 string: perhaps there's an overtone sting resonance with the guitar, and if so that should move it? On a P bass I wouldn't be afraid to set the action high, it does good things when you can dig in to it and maybe more punch that way - at the penalty of making it a physical play, not a bad thing nec. Wouldn't be afraid to lower the PU either, but doesn't look wildly out. HTH!

LD

[olliedf89]

Thanks for all the help so far, sorry I didn't get a video up sooner, here's a link to one I just quickly did. You can't quite hear the phasing as much here but you can definitely see that the E string isn't responding the same as the others. It feels the same as when you tune a string too low, loss of tension and not much girth to the sound. Almost seems that the neck is different on one side to the other but maybe that's in my head. It's done on my phone so the quality ain't great, but please feel free to specify if you want another video from a different angle or anything.

You'll probably all tell me it's in my head, but you know what it's like when something isn't right, it just bugs you for ages till you cave in and hand over £60 for someone to tighten a screw!

Thanks people.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/03w4ne7xjgso8kz/VIDEO0044.mp4?dl=0

[olliedf89]

PS I know I'm a hard hitter but I've never had these issues on another bass, including other P basses. It does feel better since the weekend, maybe the truss rod has settled since I adjusted it, but somethings not right and I'm so far into it now I can't work out what I'm doing!

[mcnach]

I just looked at the video... frankly, it just looks like a mild setup issue to me, especially with the way it gets worse as you fret the higher notes on the E string.
I hear a lot of fret buzz and it even chokes a bit on the higher notes. I can't really say without having the bass in my hands, but I'd feel tempted to raise the E saddle a fraction and add a bit more relief by loosening the truss rod a tiny bit, and see how it goes.

Does the neck look like it's sitting perfectly square in the pocket, and not slightly tilted with a gap on the E string side?

Don't be afraid to experiment with the setup (let's not go into fret levelling etc, just basic geometry adjustments)... you'll learn a bunch in the process... and if you can't get it right you'll end up taking it to a guitar tech anyway, so try to learn something first The Lakland videos above are pretty good.

[luckydog]

Thanks - hard to tell, but seems that what's catching is the bridge end frets - in which case you simply need to raise the saddle, which will have most effect at the bridge end frets. This will raise the whole action a little, but looks like it will stand that. Don't tickle it, raise the saddle quite a bit and see if the action is then workable/playable when the problem goes away.

Otherwise, it is also possible that setup of one or more of nut/bow/bridge is out, in which case getting it set up will be 40 quid or so well invested, and at least you'll know. Check out 'ski-ramp' too on google. HTH!

LD

[olliedf89]

*sigh* so thank you for all of your help so far.
I've been playing about with the bass but to no real end. I took it to my local guitar shop today and he looked at it and couldn't work out the issue. He also (fairly enough) said he wouldn't take it to the tech as he was a grumpy bastard who would return it and tell me to just play lighter.

I've attached another video in a last effort to try and fix it. I love this bass and I'd hate to see it relegated to the corner of the room.

Here's another video from next to my amp, you can hear the issue better here, I switch between strings but when it's on the E you can hear the thump of the fingerstyle attack. https://www.dropbox.com/s/hw431s5b6ex04d6/VIDEO0046.mp4?dl=0

I'm going to get some new flats and possibly some new pups to see if any of that helps. Any recommendations?

Thanks again! This is taking some patience!

[mcnach]

[quote name='olliedf89' timestamp='1461084524' post='3031335']
*sigh* so thank you for all of your help so far.
I've been playing about with the bass but to no real end. I took it to my local guitar shop today and he looked at it and couldn't work out the issue. He also (fairly enough) said he wouldn't take it to the tech as he was a grumpy bastard who would return it and tell me to just play lighter.

I've attached another video in a last effort to try and fix it. I love this bass and I'd hate to see it relegated to the corner of the room.

Here's another video from next to my amp, you can hear the issue better here, I switch between strings but when it's on the E you can hear the thump of the fingerstyle attack. [url="https://www.dropbox.com/s/hw431s5b6ex04d6/VIDEO0046.mp4?dl=0"]https://www.dropbox....EO0046.mp4?dl=0[/url]

I'm going to get some new flats and possibly some new pups to see if any of that helps. Any recommendations?

Thanks again! This is taking some patience!
[/quote]

that about the grumpy tech is one of the most ridiculous excuses I've ever heard... seriously. Take it somewhere else: that bass deserves to LIVE GLORIOUSLY!!! (I had one, and they're great basses!).

There must be some competent techs in your area (unfortunately I'm too far to be any use)... I'd try posting on 'General Discussion' asking about good bass techs near you. I bet you'll get good pointers and your bass will revive.

[mcnach]

listening to the video again... it *is* a simple set-up matter. I've had basses that were like that. I had an old Jazz like that on purpose because it was cool to play 'Fleaesque' riffs on it...

did you try? :
[quote]I'd feel tempted to raise the E saddle a fraction and add a bit more relief by loosening the truss rod a tiny bit, and see how it goes.[/quote]