Second time in the studio - what have I learned?

[neepheid]

I'm due to go into the recording studio in a couple of weeks and I'd like to make my bassy contributions better than last time. I like what I played, but in the final output I felt that the bass was really smooth and as such kinda - mushy is the wrong word but lacking in edges and definition if you know what I mean.

(results of last time - https://theinevitableteaspoons.bandcamp.com/ or search The Inevitable Teaspoons on Spotify)

I'm not doing the mixing, so I figure the only way to influence this is to change what goes into the mix at source. Last time I used a Gibson Victory Artist which is an old school active bass then through an Ampeg Portaflex PF-500 head and the DI from that (don't quote me, it was nearly a year ago).

It's the same studio and I'm guessing my route to the desk will not have changed in a year. My thinking this time is to use a passive bass (thinking about the G&L Tribute SB-2 but haven't ruled out the Gibson Ripper yet) through a Bass Soul Food pedal just to give a little dash of overdrive to the sound. I don't want super distortion or fuzz, but just a bit of old school "pushing the preamp just a smidge too hard" type sound.

Am I thinking about this right, or should I be a bit more assertive when it comes to getting what I want out of the mixing process?

Any thoughts welcome.

[ahpook]

I think you need to be a bit more assertive, sure try out a more aggressive sound, but that's only going to show up at the end if you make sure whoever's working the knobs knows that you want that kind of sound...but remember the bass has to serve the track, so (just like life !) a compromise might be needed.

Edited April 5, 2016 by ahpook

[BigRedX]

Yes the bass (just like every other instrument) has to serve the track. However sorting out the "band sound" is surely one of the things that you've already done in the rehearsal room when you wrote and arranged the songs.

IMO I'll allow the engineer/producer to override the band preferences for sound only if they are a big name producer with a proven track record who has been specifically hired to create an awesome sounding recording that will make us all rich and famous, in which case they can do what the hell they want. Otherwise I'm paying them and they can knuckle down and sort out the getting the band to sound how we want and not what makes life easy for them.

Edited April 5, 2016 by BigRedX

[RockfordStone]

an engineer will have his ways of doing things, but a band will have it's sound. if you bass has to sound a certain way to fit your bands sound and fit in the mix, then you should be open with the engineer.

unless he is a top producer who is helping you create the songs, he is really there to produce (within reason of course) what the band wants, so never be afraid to say you want the bass to sound like x and the kick drum to sound like y etc.

obviously there will be some give and take to achieve the overall balance, but your sound is your sound, so don't be afraid to ask for it.

[Old_Ben]

I think your best bet is to go in with samples (reference tracks) of what you want the bass to sound like and ask him what would work best to get something similar. Then as he has helped you get that sound he is more likely to get it on the mix down.

[TorturedSaints]

Lots of good advice above. I think it's a good idea to go in with the gear and sound that you think you want, so the engineer can hear it. If it doesn't fit with the track the engineer might ask you to do something different as long as he/she explains the reasons for it.

When it comes to approving the mixes, if you don't like the sound of the bass then say so. It's up to you and the band to approve the mixes, and most studios have a revisions policy that allow a couple of minor tweaks to the sound. So yes, being more assertive with the engineer regarding the final mix is definitely the way to go, after all, it's your music, your artistic vision and he/she is paid to deliver that, not his/her interpretation of what he/she thinks you want!

Good luck, have fun and enjoy your studio time!

[cheddatom]

Is the sound you have on your first recording similar to the sound you had when you recorded the parts? Or do you think he played with it a lot in the mixing stage? The mix sounds like a bit of a rush job to be honest, no offence intended, so while the above is all good advice, it may well be that this engineer is going to leave your sound alone in the mix, in which case getting a different sound at source would be a good idea.

[PaulWarning]

the thing I learned about it is nobody in the band is truly happy with the end result, well that's my experience after recording 2 CD's, I always remember a quote from John Lennon 'Dining with his former producer, George Martin, one night years after the band had split up, Lennon revealed that he'd like to re-record every Beatles song. Completely amazed, [url="http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=116"]Martin asked him[/url], "Even 'Strawberry Fields'?" "Especially 'Strawberry Fields,'" answered Lennon'.

[cheddatom]

it depends how you look at it. Some of my very old recordings have a rubbish mix, which is quite frustrating and makes me want to go back over them. Most of the stuff I've done for the last 10 years sounds great! I play all of the songs differently now, and it'd be nice to record them the way I play now, but I'm not too bothered about that as I see it as capturing a moment in time

I've not long finished an album with one of my bands. I think it's great but the rest of the band are already frustrated with it. "Not enough acoustic guitar, too much electric, too fast, too shouty" etc etc. As far as I'm concerned the album is a perfect capture of what we were doing at that time so I really have no problem with it. I would say "maybe the more you record the easier it gets to tolerate" but I guess Lennon had plenty of practise

[Lozz196]

When we recorded our current album the producer insisted I use a Sanasamp. I went with it as we had hired him for both the overall band sound, and the sound of the individual instruments that he got. Worked a treat, I don`t think I would be so happy with the album if he hadn`t got me to do that. I bought one whilst we were there - thanks Basschat Effects For Sale - and now use it live.

[ras52]

[quote name='Old_Ben' timestamp='1459933486' post='3020903']
I think your best bet is to go in with samples (reference tracks) of what you want the bass to sound like and ask him what would work best to get something similar. Then as he has helped you get that sound he is more likely to get it on the mix down.
[/quote]

This! I'm getting more into mixing, and reference, reference, reference is the mantra I hear again and again.

[neepheid]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I think it's clear that I need to be a bit more assertive in getting what I want out of recording instead of sitting there like a rabbit in the headlights going "ooh, we made a recording" while not wanting to bug the guy doing the recording because self esteem issues etc.

I'm happy with the arrangements and how we sound live. I think the sound I'm looking for comes from the fact that I use a compact 250W 1x10 combo in rehearsals and I do push it quite hard to be heard in amongst the rest of the band in the same room so I get that slightly boxy, "pushing the amp a bit" type of sound. Performing live is a bit of a crapshoot most of the time because I'm often using house gear because I'm lazy, plus the FOH is out of my hands anyway.

Perhaps I should get in touch with the guy and see what he thinks about me playing through my wee box and he takes a DI out of it (and maybe mic it up too?), but on the other hand I don't like the idea that the sound I'm hearing is tied to this one amp which isn't made any more and will die at some as yet undetermined day in the future. I still think that using the overdrive pedal at source will at least allow me to influence things from the off and having it on/off at my feet does add an extra texture option to proceedings that I think I'll employ going forward anyway.

[BigRedX]

It's a great idea to try and discuss these things with the engineer that will be recording you.

If you want your "live" sound in the studio then it is best to use your rig and insist that it is mic'd up, or that the engineer can quickly demonstrate that they can replicate this sound to your and the band's satisfaction from a DI source. IMO DI should always comes second to the sound of the bass rig mic'd up and is used only if the mic'd sound requires a bit of extra weight, or as a safety track that can be re-amped should the overall sound of the song change so much at the mixing stage that your original bass sound is no longer appropriate.

The other thing to avoid IMO is the temptation to try instruments and amps in the studio that you are not familiar with. This fine if you have unlimited time and budget for the recording, but that's very rarely the case, so stick with what you know and like.