Broken Cab just arrived....

[moooper]

Company is Parcel Monkey

The greatest care is taken when parcels are handled by hand during the sorting processes. However, whilst �Handle With Care� labeling would ensure careful manual handling, this would not affect the mechanised sorting processes. Being a reseller passing thousands of parcels each week to the designated couriers, our partners have to use mechanised sorting systems. Therefore, goods despatched on our services have to be packaged correctly in order to withstand the rigors of our mechanical sorting processes. Please be assured that the vast number of parcels despatched on our services are delivered without incident and that the occurrence of damage is rare.

Kindly note we made you aware that all items must be correctly packaged before transit, that is sufficient amount of bubble wraps must be used to wrap the item. We then advise customers to use additional cushioning materials to ensure all edges are covered as well then use a strong cardboard box as the outer packaging.

Taking into consideration all of the above I regret I cannot change the status of your claim. I recognise this is not the response you were hoping for and I am sorry I cannot offer a more favourable reply.

Once again please accept my apologies for the inconvenience and concern which this matter has clearly generated.

[moooper]

Basically they are saying yeah we probably broke it but you should have packed according to the abuse we were gonna give it. It was packed with a huge amount of bubble wrap a thick padded cover (very nice one) and double layer cardboard. I'm dealing with it as I organised and paid for it to be picked up

[KingBollock]

Sounds like they're as dim as the American I once had an argument with who disagreed with me that being in an M1 Tank that was thrown thirty feet in the air by a bomb, might be a bit uncomfortable. His argument was that they wouldn't have even felt it at all because it was an American made tank... He refused to try to understand that the internal organs inside the occupants might get a bit jiggled.

Although, I was arguing with him, so who's the dim one?

[Billy Apple]

I think you should speak to the CAB and ask if you've any recourse under the Supply of Goods and Services Act. They should tell you exactly what to put into a letter to them. You do have certain statutory rights and you may find they can't just bust your stuff and then mug you off.
Good luck!

[taunton-hobbit]

Trading Standards might be more use than CAB, who can be very patchy, depending on area, and staffing...........

[Truckstop]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1459957707' post='3021279']
Forgot to add - I always sign "Not examined" for things.
[/quote]

This means absolutely nothing to anyone. Once it's signed for, it's signed for, regardless of the condition you find it in the next day.

I strongly suggest checking every parcel before signing for stuff. If you don't want the item due to damage, then return it with the courier.

[discreet]

Assume your goods are going to be dropped from head height, thrown around in a truck and stood on by an 18st courier wearing size 13 boots, then pack them accordingly. This is expensive and time-consuming, particularly with cabs, and you need to factor this into the cost. Adding tape and stickers bearing the legends 'Fragile' and 'This way up' and so on is just asking for trouble as items marked in this way are singled out for 'special treatment'.

Couriers absolutely loathe and detest their jobs (which is hardly surprising) and grow to loathe and detest people who send stuff AND the people they have to deliver stuff to. It's wrong of course, but that's how it is.

Edited April 13, 2016 by discreet

[KingBollock]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1460565643' post='3026891']
Assume your goods are going to be dropped from head height, thrown around in a truck and stood on by an 18st courier wearing size 13 boots, then pack them accordingly. This is expensive and time-consuming, particularly with cabs, and you need to factor this into the cost. Adding tape and stickers bearing the legends 'Fragile' and 'This way up' and so on is just asking for trouble as items marked in this way are singled out for 'special treatment'.

Couriers absolutely loathe and detest their jobs (which is hardly surprising) and grow to loathe and detest people who send stuff AND the people they have to deliver stuff to. It's wrong of course, but that's how it is.
[/quote]
When I was a kid my dad was a parcel 'umper for Federal Express. He used to laugh about the way they treated certain types of parcels.

"Frageelie? Where's Frageelie?"

"Dunno, just chuck it in the back!"

*lobs parcel as far as he can*

Bit of a ****, my dad.

[Billy Apple]

You don't get put through to trading standards anymore. If you phone TS you go to the CAB who assess your needs and advise accordingly. You'd get through to TS on the CAB say-so.

[taunton-hobbit]

Thanks BA - didn't know that - I only hope that the person on the end of the phone at CAB knows their stuff -
I've lived in towns where CAB was staffed by numpties & used as a central needle exchange point..............

[AndrewJordan]

Maybe ten years ago, the place I worked at got a delivery from the green parcel machine. In the back of the van there were packages strewn all over the floor. Driver got in to get our package while walking on top of others. Then I noticed the JCB rear bucket(google it) sitting unsecured on top of a few packets and squashed boxes(all on their way to be delivered)!!

[Billy Apple]

[quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1460569439' post='3026935']
Thanks BA - didn't know that - I only hope that the person on the end of the phone at CAB knows their stuff -
I've lived in towns where CAB was staffed by numpties & used as a central needle exchange point..............


[/quote]

It's actually something called the Citizens Advice Consumer Advice Line

http://www.tradingstandards.uk/advice/

[mrtcat]

Get the pics up on the courier's Facebook page and twitter feed. Publicly shaming them in front of their customers often prompts a more "favourable" response.

[luckydog]

[QUOTE]I have to wonder how you create the acceleration required to break off a speaker basket. Dropped from a great height or slammed down only begins to cover it. [/QUOTE] Guess the basket is a casting and brittle, and the magnet is a thumping large mass as you say, DBerriff. I've seen my share of damaged speaker drivers, but this is something else..........?!

Tea and sympathy.

LD

[alexclaber]

We considered putting both 'glass - fragile' and 'biohazard' stickers on our cabs so they'd be treated with care/fear! Unfortunately the risk of customs clearance issues precluded that...

[Twincam]

I've shipped a few cabs, valve amps and many basses. I always worry myself sick and especially as I always label them fragile with tape and write on them this way up etc. Thankfully nothing has went wrong yet! And I use parcelforce so probably only a matter of time haha.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Bit confusing.
Was the cab purchased from a company or an individual ?
How did you pay for it ?

Personally , the product you purchased is not fit for purpose . If it was from a retailer , tell them that ASAP and get refund.
If it's from an individual (2nd hand ) , you received a broken item.
Both ways = small claims court .bypass the courier . That's the senders tesponsinily IMHO
You have photographic evidence to back it up.
A phone will probably have the date when you opened it .

Good luck anyway

Edited April 14, 2016 by RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE

[moooper]

Was the cab purchased from a company or an individual ?
Individual

How did you pay for it ?
Paypal/Credit card

The guy I bought it from didn't wanna send it but we came to an arrangement and I sorted it all. I don't wanna take the guy to task over this, I trust the guy it was fine when it left him. The fact is this thing survived years of gigging etc but less than 24hrs with the couriers = huge damage. I'm not having it from the couriers. I paid them for a service (insured) they broke it and now changing the goal posts to suit them.

[taunton-hobbit]

'Fit for purpose' - is not appropriate here, unless the thing was obviously trashed prior to despatch.

[BassBod]

Be persistent, name them and point them to this thread. All their initial responses will be standard issue, just to put you off and make you give up. The damage to your goods is significant, and that means serious neglect on their part. As a community there must be a lot of money spent here sending stuff around the country/world, so we need to know which couriers to avoid (I know its a long list!)

No bubble wrap in existence would have saved your cab...

Edited April 15, 2016 by BassBod

[moooper]

[quote name='BassBod' timestamp='1460715102' post='3028058']
Be persistent, name them and point them to this thread. All their initial responses will be standard issue, just to put you off and make you give up. The damage to your goods is significant, and that means serious neglect on their part. As a community there must be a lot of money spent here sending stuff around the country/world, so we need to know which couriers to avoid (I know its a long list!)

No bubble wrap in existence would have saved your cab...
[/quote]
Thanks, yeah I spoke to CItizens Advice they said send a letter recorded. Saying the service was not done with reasonable care and I am entitled to seek damages. I need to state a deadline as well. I completely agree it could have been packed with double the amount of bubble wrap and cardboard and it still would have been damaged.
I have also told them this process is being watched on a very large musician forum and members are very interested how they deal with this. They ignored that last statements by the way.

Edited April 15, 2016 by moooper

[mcnach]

[quote name='moooper' timestamp='1460558330' post='3026801']
Company is Parcel Monkey

The greatest care is taken when parcels are handled by hand during the sorting processes. However, whilst �Handle With Care� labeling would ensure careful manual handling, this would not affect the mechanised sorting processes. Being a reseller passing thousands of parcels each week to the designated couriers, our partners have to use mechanised sorting systems. Therefore, goods despatched on our services have to be packaged correctly in order to withstand the rigors of our mechanical sorting processes. Please be assured that the vast number of parcels despatched on our services are delivered without incident and that the occurrence of damage is rare.

Kindly note we made you aware that all items must be correctly packaged before transit, that is sufficient amount of bubble wraps must be used to wrap the item. We then advise customers to use additional cushioning materials to ensure all edges are covered as well then use a strong cardboard box as the outer packaging.

Taking into consideration all of the above I regret I cannot change the status of your claim. I recognise this is not the response you were hoping for and I am sorry I cannot offer a more favourable reply.

Once again please accept my apologies for the inconvenience and concern which this matter has clearly generated.
[/quote]

the problem is no matter how hard a box is, it does nothing against a sharp deceleration, which is why you can get severe internal injuries in a car crash despite seatbelts and airbags.
Can you imagine the amount of crumpling material needed to protect a speaker cab dropped from a height of 1.5m?
Do you think it's unreasonable to expect that parcels will not be dropped from such a height?
Do you imagine the height a parcel must fall to generate the force necessary to shear a magnet?

There's insufficient package and there's inadequate courier practices.

[Phil Starr]

I find it hard to believe a simple drop would create enough acceleration to o that much damage. I suspect the speaker might have been loose inside the van.That would make it the responsibility of the courier. Unless it was damaged before it left.

Write to the courier. Point out that the cab was undamaged so the packaging was adequate. The damage was clearly caused by a violent deceleration. Tell them that you intention is to repair the item and then bill them for the repair via the small claims court if necessary.

[TrevorR]

[quote name='moooper' timestamp='1460558529' post='3026804']
Basically they are saying yeah we probably broke it but you should have packed according to the abuse we were gonna give it. It was packed with a huge amount of bubble wrap a thick padded cover (very nice one) and double layer cardboard. I'm dealing with it as I organised and paid for it to be picked up
[/quote]

They're just hoping you'll say, "Oh well..." and give up at this point in the claims process. Your next reply should state that "the force needed to cause the damage was such that no reasonable amount of packaging would have prevented it, it could only have been caused by dropping it from a significant height, not by automated handling equipment. This is not in line with the duty of care whichisexpected of the company and their staff. Liability rests with them and you are consulting your solicitor to see how you can pursue the matter further on a formal legal basis." - even if you're not. It may be enough to move them onto the next stage of the process rather than just hoping for an easy win.

[moooper]

Update: Sent two letters they ignored the first one second they responded to and said the same as before wasn't packaged properly etc. I was advised by citizens advice to use an alternative dispute resolution service. If they don't do anything its off to small claims court.