Were pub/smaller venue bands quieter in the past?

[Twincam]

This is a serious honest question, no hidden agenda in my post. This question is born out of me trying to figure out what to buy.
While looking for a new amp and cab the question of watts and cab config etc always comes up. And inevitably you start looking at reviews and various posts on forums and you get into your head you need such and such amount of power and such and a certain amount of cone area so to say.
It's very true you do need a certain amount of power and a cab that can deliver.

However in the past it seems very common people used much less watts as the tech was not available and probably a less efficient cabs. But it must of got the job done in some manner. We know valve watts can be overdriven and loud but not everyone was using valve amps. Seems many were usin ss power much less than say 250w.

I'm wondering were bands quieter. Drums have certainly not got quieter. Because reading threads makes you think that with less than so many watts etc there's no way you would be heard over a drummer.
So to me it seems something must have changed, either gigs were quieter, drummers didn't play as hard or the amount of power you need now is being over estimated?

I do know there's the headroom argument to me this still doesn't cover the fact so many watts were good enough yesteryear to the same watts now.

Could it be that cabs are shrinking and don't deliver what they claim? I've heard it be said that not many watts through say an 8x10 is much louder.

[warwickhunt]

I think 'watts' are cheaper!

We could easily manage with less amp power and/or speaker sensitivity but tech advances means we don't need to make do. 30 years ago I played with drummers as loud as now and I got by with 100-250w... all be it cranked 90% of the time; our 1000w (pub) PA was also always near the limit which isn't as likely these days.

[FinnDave]

Interesting question, back in the 70s I used to gig with a Selmer treble & bass 50 and 2x15 home made cab. It was enough, and the bands I was in then played heavier and more intense music than I do now, and now I use a 500 watt amp!

[Twincam]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1460040461' post='3022007']
I think 'watts' are cheaper!

We could easily manage with less amp power and/or speaker sensitivity but tech advances means we don't need to make do. 30 years ago I played with drummers as loud as now and I got by with 100-250w... all be it cranked 90% of the time; our 1000w (pub) PA was also always near the limit which isn't as likely these days.
[/quote]

Yes that's cool
In theory say could someone save money by going for less watts still in today's world? As there can be some good savings to be made going for say a 250 - 350w head rather than there larger counterpart?

[LewisK1975]

I don't think Pub bands were quieter in the past. What Warwickhunt says above rings true for me, more likely a case of us having to crank our gear back in the day, let's be honest, who actually manages to get their 500watt + amps past 12'oclock on the output (provided you've got the 'gain' set correct), I know I don't.

Also back then 300 watts for a bass amp was about as many watts as you could buy anyway.

[RhysP]

When I was gigging a lot back in the late 80s/early 90s I played gigs of all sizes, up to pretty large stages at open air festivals, & I never once used more than 150 watts, and I never pushed that to it's limit. We were a loud Hawkwind style Space Rock band too.

Edited April 7, 2016 by RhysP

[BigRedX]

I think it depends on the instrument and the PA.

For my bass rig I have some nice gear with an amp capable of delivering 1kW into the cabs I use and as a result rarely need to wind the master volume up beyond about one third. On the other hand my current guitar amp is now only 50W and run through a power soak, whilst back in the 80s I had a 100W amp that needed to be run flat out most of the time.

Also when I first started gigging everything went through the PA and vocals were generally mixed at a level where they could be heard, but the lyrics were rarely discernible. These days vocals at nearly every gig are crystal clear and at most small venues the PA is only used for vocals and the occasional kick drum.

Also IIRC in the 70s and 80s we pretty much all ran everything flat out until it failed, and it sounded pretty nasty a lot of the time.

[lowhand_mike]

are you mad, coming in here thinking of using less watts?
if you were a true man you'd use as much as you could afford and gloat at the fact you dont have to crank it, i know i do

seriously i've gigged with 90 watts and struggled with a farting amp, i've gigged comfortably for years with a 300watt amp running at 2/3rds power (8ohm) and coped fine, and have now bought and 800watt amp just because, give in to the gas

[Lw.]

If anything I'd say older bands were louder, although it may just be that my hearing now isn't as good as it was :-)

The sad reality is that most of us don't really need all the gear we acquire - once you're past a very low level you're buying stuff because you want it, not need it (though we do make up some nice excuses).

Edited April 7, 2016 by Lw.

[Number6]

I used to use a Carlsbro Stingray 150W and two 1x15 bass cabinets.....it was thunderous and very heavy.

[Ghost_Bass]

I agree that we're louder now. I think that the main reason for this is that [u]drum kits have become better and louder[/u] along with the introduction of PA's at an affordable price for pub bands.

I would love to play at lower volumes, my time for heavy metal has gone, but the drum kit alone, unamplified, makes me have to turn the volume of my 500W amp to almost half...

[Number6]

I seem to remember my guitarists both had 100watt Laney stacks too.....which looked very cool but again back breaking. I think what i'm trying to say is sod all that nowadays!

[NickD]

I still have the 150w (I think) 1x15 Series 6 Trace Combo that I toured with extensively in the 90s, pubs and clubs, huge military marquees, Stadthalle in Bielefeld being the biggest venue I wound up in... PA support where it made sense obviously, but while I stuck another 15 under it for the sake of appearance I never once plugged it in, and never had a volume problem, not even close. Ymmv... etc.

[BottomE]

Nice observation. In the 80s i had probably a max of 300 Watts and that was considered "beefy". It was always cranked up though. These days i get 550 Watts and play about mid way on the gain. Good to know theres more if needed.

[ambient]

I've posted on here before, that I think we play too loud.

[ahpook]

[quote name='NickD' timestamp='1460042257' post='3022038']
I still have the 150w (I think) 1x15 Series 6 Trace Combo that I toured with extensively in the 90s, pubs and clubs, huge military marquees, Stadthalle in Bielefeld being the biggest venue I wound up in... PA support where it made sense obviously, but while I stuck another 15 under it for the sake of appearance I never once plugged it in, and never had a volume problem, not even close. Ymmv... etc.
[/quote]

Maybe it's a TE thing - I used a Trace Elliot 150W head for years, never had a volume problem even through various not-top-end cabs.

[ahpook]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1460042950' post='3022046']
I've posted on here before, that I think we play too loud.
[/quote]

You are not wrong.

[RhysP]

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1460043004' post='3022047']
Maybe it's a TE thing - I used a Trace Elliot 150W head for years, never had a volume problem even through various not-top-end cabs.
[/quote]

Same here.

[NickD]

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1460043004' post='3022047']


Maybe it's a TE thing - I used a Trace Elliot 150W head for years, never had a volume problem even through various not-top-end cabs.
[/quote]

Could be. I blame that damn thing for me never having had amp GAS!

Edited April 7, 2016 by NickD

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1460041771' post='3022031']
I agree that we're louder now. I think that the main reason for this is that [u]drum kits have become better and louder[/u] along with the introduction of PA's at an affordable price for pub bands.

I would love to play at lower volumes, my time for heavy metal has gone, but the drum kit alone, unamplified, makes me have to turn the volume of my 500W amp to almost half...
[/quote]

drum kits have got louder?! Any reason you think that?

[taunton-hobbit]

I'm a sound system - in the early 70s I used two 100watt Vortexion s/s monoblocks and a 200watt Orange Matamp (valve)...I went over to a 200watt Ormat pa amp and the original 200 Ormat.....that lot was retired early 80s for a Soundcraft install amp (mosfet) which was capable of 1k.....I sold the lot in the 90's and started re-equiping.
Currently I have a Crown XLS Drivecore 2k.
As alternatives, I have around 800watts+ of Matamp/Ormat(different from the earlier stuff - KT120's) and/or a 200watt Marshall valve rackmount. You pays your money....

Back in the day, I think band amplification was generally bloody awful and the sheer wall of distortion actually made it sound louder than it really was.
I like the fact that I've now got a fair amount of clean power on tap, so turning up the wick is no problem.
BTW - I use two BF Dubsters and a pair of Mackie c200....it's plenty loud enough (!)

[colgraff]

I'm not sure that bands are louder now, but the sound quality as certainly improved. Granted, I used to frequent punk and metal venues where amps were routinely pushed beyond sensible limits.

[phil.c60]

I think the idea that people used 150W heads and ran them almost flat out is probably true. My LM3 is 350W into my 8ohm Barefaced Compact and I'd be surprised if I run it at more than 1/3 of it's available power. It doesn't clip with my passive P bass until about 3/4 gain, but I rarely run it at that (I know, but it works for me), more like a tad under half way, plus the master only about half way too, so 1/3 of total is probably about right, so just over 100w. And that's plenty for all the pub's we play in.

[Twincam]

Trace Elliot watts are definitely louder. Just sold a 300w combo and it was the loudest 200w at 8 ohms I've ever heard, so much so I've heard apparent plus 500w modern amps that It would laugh at. Didn't like the tone so it went.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1460044603' post='3022066']


drum kits have got louder?! Any reason you think that?
[/quote]

I've heard similar, but going further back than the timescale being discussed here. Any veteran drummers care to comment?