Dad3353 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1460291513' post='3024362'] Really?? Would you expect a drummer who plays in a small jazz ensemble to be equally convincing in a Metallica tribute?? [/quote] A [i]good [/i]drummer..? Yes, I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1460292128' post='3024368'] A [i]good [/i]drummer..? Yes, I would. [/quote] But would he really be a good drummer or merely a Jack of all trades, equally unconvincing in all genres?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1460294564' post='3024391'] But would he really be a good drummer or merely a Jack of all trades, equally unconvincing in all genres?? [/quote] It really depends on the audience. I saw a very good professional rock band at a Butlins night club once. Something wasn't right. They didn't have tattoos and it was just slightly missing a certain edge. It was a flawless performance though and the crowd thought it was awesome. So who am I to judge? The next night the same guys were wearing suits and backing some pop singer in the main ballroom. I would have put £1k on me being the only person to notice. Edited April 10, 2016 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1460294564' post='3024391'] But would he really be a good drummer or merely a Jack of all trades, equally unconvincing in all genres?? [/quote] I don't know where we're going with this, but I'll offer this as a 'Jack of all trades'. Is he playing too loud or too quietly..? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MywO9JryFqo[/media] Simon Phillips on the subject... [media]http://youtu.be/356Gq0qMTdE[/media] Edited April 10, 2016 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1460297099' post='3024422'] It really depends on the audience. I saw a very good professional rock band at a Butlins night club once. Something wasn't right. They didn't have tattoos and it was just slightly missing a certain edge. It was a flawless performance though and the crowd thought it was awesome. So who am I to judge? The next night the same guys were wearing suits and backing some pop singer in the main ballroom. I would have put £1k on me being the only person to notice. [/quote] I would have taken that bet - in a big crowd (even in Butlins) there would have been someone else who knew their rock music and would have thought that it wasn't quite right. If that same band had played a proper rock venue then the majority of the audience would have noticed the difference! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1460297559' post='3024425'] I don't know where we're going with this, but I'll offer this as a 'Jack of all trades'. Is he playing too loud or too quietly..? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MywO9JryFqo[/media] Simon Phillips on the subject... [media]http://youtu.be/356Gq0qMTdE[/media] [/quote] I am quite aware of Kenny Aronoff being quite capable of playing hard rock, various pop sessions and big band jazz. Not surprising considering his early background, his classical training and then his wide-ranging experience of sessions & touring. The clip I had seen was this – all good stuff and shows what a versatile player he is. Note that he is still playing pretty hard at times. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVsnnxpcsKI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVsnnxpcsKI[/url] However, I would still say that there are perfectly functional good drummers who cannot play across the full range of genres like Kenny Aronoff. I am playing with a drummer at the moment who can more than hold his own in a rock covers band, but if you put a pair of brushes in his hands then the most productive thing he find to do with them would be to clean his ashtray out! Equally, I knew a highly technical jazz drummer who would be completely lost at on a loud rock gig. No one is saying that a drummer should not play with dynamics or should be ridiculously loud all the time. just that you should always play at an appropriate level and for a rock band that should be reasonably loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1460303940' post='3024488'] I would have taken that bet - in a big crowd (even in Butlins) there would have been someone else who knew their rock music and would have thought that it wasn't quite right. If that same band had played a proper rock venue then the majority of the audience would have noticed the difference! [/quote] Maybe, but even the drummer I was playing with at the time thought they were excellent. And he only listens to rock and metal, plays too loud, fast and you are never sure whether his next fill would make the bar 4-1/2 beats long. 20years later and he's not improved, but that's another bass players problem now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 (edited) just thought I'd put my tupenneth in, as in bass playing just because a drummer can't play all styles of music doesn't mean he's a bad drummer, it could mean he's not interested in learning to play music he's not interested in, would you say Macca's a bad bass player because he doesn't do finger style? Our current drummer is a good lad, I once asked him if he could play quieter (we practice in a small room) his reply was "but I enjoy hitting things hard" and if you stop enjoying it you'll soon fall or out of love with playing Edited April 10, 2016 by PaulWarning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 Excessive volume has always been a problem, it's just that now, with better equipment, it's easier to be louder. I remember my cousin booked a band for her wedding some 30 years ago. The evening venue wasn't big but the band were stupid loud. And on Friday I saw a band play a small venue and they were too loud, so in 30 years, not much has changed. I went to see The Dammed play a couple of months ago and the volume was so excessive I was thankful I found my earplugs in my jacket pocket. The volume was such that there was no mix, just an undefined wall of noise. Some bands seem to think it's clever to play excessively loud, which I think is a bit dumb. The thing is today is that the PA will let bands play loud, so technically speaking they'll sound better. BUT, human ears can still only handle so much before they start to crap out. You can have the best and sweetest sounding PA but if you raise the volume beyond what people's ears can handle the band will still sound crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted April 10, 2016 Share Posted April 10, 2016 [quote name='Marvin' timestamp='1460306683' post='3024538'] I went to see The Dammed play a couple of months ago and the volume was so excessive I was thankful I found my earplugs in my jacket pocket. The volume was such that there was no mix, just an undefined wall of noise. [/quote]that sounds like the Captain on a bad day, seriously I went to see the Damned at Rock City last year and it's the best I've ever heard them sound so I'm surprised to hear that, I sometimes wonder whether they use a PA supplied by the Venue, they should still have their own sound guy though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 I have gigged with the Damned a couple of times in LARGE venues back in the day. Rainbow Theatre and the Apollo back when it was the Odeon. If the mix was too loud and crap, it was certainly down to the guy on the desk more than the Damned. Those guys were always good players, regardless of what their press said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 I think the people seem to be more noisy than bands these days, ever since Sky Sports was brought into pubs . People are shouting st each other , when only a couple of inches away from each other . I know that doesn't help. Sorry I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 (edited) [quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1460632405' post='3027393'] I think the people seem to be more noisy than bands these days, ever since Sky Sports was brought into pubs . People are shouting st each other , when only a couple of inches away from each other . I know that doesn't help. Sorry I [/quote]try open mics, the noise of people talking drowns out the 'music' but there again that's why folk go to the pub I suppose Edited April 14, 2016 by PaulWarning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 14, 2016 Share Posted April 14, 2016 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1460645082' post='3027550'] the noise of people talking drowns out the 'music' [/quote] Not when we're playing!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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