Hot-Rodded Precision

[danlea]

Just thought I'd post a picture of my newly hot-rodded MIJ p-bass. The Bass Gallery did the routing for me - a very neat job, although it did introduce a couple of hairline cracks into the lacquer, which is a shame but not a big deal. They also drilled a hole in the scratchplate so I could put in a three-way switch for the tone control - the wiring's discussed in [topic="25375"]this topic[/topic]. I had asked for the bass to be shielded, for which they simply put a shielding plate in the jazz cavity, even though pickup has some shielding on the back of it already. Anyway, I bought some copper tape and did the whole lot - I've yet to see the results of this as I need to be somewhere with strong capacitive coupling to the mains, i.e. our rehearsal studios, and can compare it to the Squier which came shielded. I should note that the jazz pickup is a stack (and both pickups are the 'hot' models) so there are no single coils to be seen.

The Bass Gallery were hot-rodding another precision at the same time, and I can see why it's a popular mod, given that Fender don't sell the hot-rod precision standards anymore (why?). One thing you should be aware of if you fancy following the same path, you do lose some of the deep bottom end from the precision when dialling in the jazz - the volume isn't simply a sum of both pickup outputs (and no, I'm not talking about a blend setup). This can (and does in mine case) lead to a volume drop, even though the pickups are in phase. If you want to get the general idea, try out the now ubiquitous Squier Special at any guitar shop - this has a VVT control setup and demonstrates the tonal variation well enough.

As for my bass (master, jazz volume, tone), I think the presence of the jazz pickup in itself adds some gnarl to the tone of the bass when using only the precision pickup (the jazz is a hot pickup and the string-pole distance is between two and three millimetres) and of course this element is emphasised when dialling in the jazz. The combined tone is more clinical, as well as adding that something you only get from bridge pickups, particularly when playing close to the bridge (it always casts my mind to Flea's sound more than anything else, probably just because the Chillies are so familiar).

Dan.

Edited September 25, 2008 by danlea

[DirkThrust]

Very nice. I'm seriously considering having this mod done to mine. I owned a hot rodded P and like an idiot I sold it to fund something else which I then subsequently sold, doh!!

I don't understand why Fender discontinued the Hot-rodded range either. As you say it's a very popular mod and I would certainly buy one in a flash. They come up for trade very occasionally in the for sale section here and sell almost straight away. I've only ever seen a couple and I missed them both. Double doh!!

Edited September 25, 2008 by AndyMartin

[The Burpster]

I'll bet that growls with 2 SDs in place.....!




Nice job....!

[danlea]

[quote name='AndyMartin' post='291949' date='Sep 25 2008, 04:29 PM']Very nice. I'm seriously considering having this mod done to mine.[/quote]

Well just so you know, I was charged a total of £50 for the routing and installation (bar electronics) plus 'the shielding', and I seem to remember them quoting £30 or £35 for just the routing - I wouldn't bat an eyelid at spending that. A typical solution for the controls is to side-mount the jack socket and install an extra pot for volume/blend, but I'm not entirely certain of the logistics of that given that the socket hole is larger than a pot mounting hole.

[lowhand_mike]

i always like the jazz/precision specials with the same pickups setup as yours, obviously your picks won't be the standard ones in those basses.

nice one

must resist getting a precision, but they are growing on me

[danlea]

Oh, and I'm thinking of putting in a linear pot for the jazz volume as it does currently sound like the the transition between tones is concentrated in a small window not far from the maximum setting. It's the same with the Squier.

[The Burpster]

[quote name='danlea' post='292029' date='Sep 25 2008, 05:41 PM']Well just so you know, I was charged a total of £50 for the routing and installation (bar electronics) plus 'the shielding', and I seem to remember them quoting £30 or £35 for just the routing - I wouldn't bat an eyelid at spending that. A typical solution for the controls is to side-mount the jack socket and install an extra pot for volume/blend, but I'm not entirely certain of the logistics of that given that the socket hole is larger than a pot mounting hole.[/quote]


Its actually a piece of pish if you take your time and use the correct wood bit. I've done a few now.... having all that extra space in teh cavity is bliss!

the latest one I've done.....

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18771&hl=highway"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...&hl=highway[/url]

[Mr. Foxen]

Is there any way round that volume drop thing? Made my neck j-pup p mono and been noticing it.

[danlea]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='292188' date='Sep 25 2008, 09:08 PM']Is there any way round that volume drop thing? Made my neck j-pup p mono and been noticing it.[/quote]

Well, without thinking it about it too much, I reckon you could potentially use a dual pot for the bridge volume, having the secondary pot in series with a higher value resistor as the load for the neck pickup. This way the neck pickup would be set just below max when the bridge is out, and increased up to max as the bridge pickup is dialled in. This is in reference to my 1 master, 1 volume control configuration, and I'm not really sure of what you have or want. To be honest you'd probably end up with the overall volume fluctuating as you turned the control, and need to experiment to get roughly equal volumes at either end of the dial - I don't expect it would be worth it. If I had a LOT of free time on my hands I might mess around with such an idea, but the values depend on your pickups, distance to the strings, etc.

The only way to avoid pickups affecting each other is to mix them actively, something I don't think is even done in most active instruments, the exception being combination piezo setups, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Musky]

I don't suppose anyone knows what is happening, electrically speaking, when you get a volume drop like this. Obviously if the pickups are out of phase you'd expect a volume drop, but I'd expect the volume to at least stay constant (or get louder) with two pickups switched in.

[bassbloke]

I have a HM series bass with a 3 way switch and I don't have this problem, so maybe that's the solution. Plus, it's dead easy - I'm sure most people simply don't need THAT level of control and a quick switch between pickups would solve the problem.

[chris_b]

In order to get the best out of this bass you should also be looking to replace the Fender bridge.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='chris_b' post='292914' date='Sep 26 2008, 05:32 PM']In order to get the best out of this bass you should also be looking to replace the Fender bridge.[/quote]

I love it when people say this...

[Brother Jones]

How do you mean WoT? Do you prefer the original bridges? Just wondering about upgrading my Jap '62 reissue to a Badass y'see...

Thanks

[wateroftyne]

Sweeping statements like ChrisB's are a little unhelpful, I think.

Some people like Badasses... others don't. I personally find the stock Fender bridge to be just fine...

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='293724' date='Sep 28 2008, 06:56 AM']Some people like Badasses... others don't. I personally find the stock Fender bridge to be just fine...[/quote]

I'm another one who doesn't. It seems to be an almost ubiquitous upgrade to Fender basses though.

I think it totally ruins the classic look of the bass. I've always found the stock Fender bridge to be perfectly adequate and it does exactly what it's supposed to do.

[DirkThrust]

[quote name='Brother Jones' post='293680' date='Sep 27 2008, 11:49 PM']How do you mean WoT? Do you prefer the original bridges? Just wondering about upgrading my Jap '62 reissue to a Badass y'see...

Thanks[/quote]

OTOH the stock Jap bridges are particularly cheap and cheerful IIRC. You could do a lot worse than putting a US standard bridge on there. Fender have been gradually improving them over the years and the new HMV bridge is an excellent piece of kit. You could probably pick one up cheap from someone who's uprading to a badass

[Guest MoJo]

Off topic: I had a 'King's New Clothes' moment after fitting a Badass II to my old Mexican Precision, convincing myself that it made a significant difference to the tone. When I removed it to sell the bass a while later, I found that the guitar sounded pretty much the same with the stock bridge on.

On topic: I fancy hot-rodding my P-bass copy by fitting a Stingray humbucker by the bridge. Should make it quite a versatile instrument

[chris_b]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='293724' date='Sep 28 2008, 06:56 AM']....Sweeping statements like ChrisB's are a little unhelpful, I think.
Some people like Badasses... others don't. I personally find the stock Fender bridge to be just fine....[/quote]
And I also think that the Fender bridge is fine, but, unless you are very unlucky, the Badass is going to increase sustain and improve your tone because it's basically a better, more substantial bridge design which is why it has been so successful over the last 30 years!
In my opinion, if you are in a mood to mod your Fender bridge replacemant is one of the places to check out first.

[Mickeyboro]

I've had both and didn't really notice a big difference...except in the weight!

[danlea]

Musky - You have to bear in mind that when dialling in another pickup you're changing the load characteristics of the circuit and so are liable to alter the tone and output of the original pickup's component (not that you can separate the components) unless both pickups are buffered.

bassbloke - The result is not going to be a lowering in output in every case. Just imagine a case wherein the outputs of the individual pups differ greatly, e.g. the neck being much quieter than the bridge - in this case the output is bound to increase when adding more of the bridge. Using a 3-way switch is not going to cure the problem and is not going to be an acceptable proposition to those who want continuous (as opposed to discrete) blending.

With regards to Badass bridge, yeah, it's a separate topic, but as it's in here I can't help but comment. The Badass may well increase sustain in certain cases, although I do also suspect the difference is lessened when using very high gauge strings as I do. The main thing is, as others have said, any difference in tone is not always a step in right direction, depending on what you're going for. From what I can tell, the vintage bridge is a major part of the vintage sound. Lastly, this bridge seems fine to me. Any cost-cutting measures on the Japanese models don't seem to manifest themselves on this bass at least.

bassman2790 - Putting a Stingray humbucker in a precision is a going towards the American Deluxe model, but staying passive. Would be interesting to try.

[OutToPlayJazz]

+1 to WaterOfTyne's earlier comment on the original Fender bridge. If you have an American made Fender there's really no need for it, as the through-body stringing reduces the string/bridge contact area & creates more sustain than a badass ever could. I've had two Fenders with Badass IIs & they were both inferior to the basses with the through body stringing & original bridges.

I am, however thinking about getting one for my MIM Precision at the same time as I change the scratchplate & swap out the pickup for a Wizard Thumper.

[flutophilus]

Genuine question here. Why wouldn't you get a US Deluxe if you wanted a P bass with a bridge pu? (assuming money not a problem).

I'm asking the question because I'm looking at P basses at the moment, and I've tried the US Standard which I like but the shop didn't have a US Deluxe so I couldn't try it.

If you set a US Deluxe to neck p/u only and all eq flat would that not sound the same as a US Standard ? Does it lose something just because it has the bridge p/u ?

Cheers

[danlea]

[quote name='flutophilus' post='294590' date='Sep 29 2008, 03:21 PM']Genuine question here. Why wouldn't you get a US Deluxe if you wanted a P bass with a bridge pu? (assuming money not a problem).

I'm asking the question because I'm looking at P basses at the moment, and I've tried the US Standard which I like but the shop didn't have a US Deluxe so I couldn't try it.

If you set a US Deluxe to neck p/u only and all eq flat would that not sound the same as a US Standard ? Does it lose something just because it has the bridge p/u ?

Cheers[/quote]

I've had a USA Deluxe. It just didn't do it for me. It was powerful and clear, but it just doesn't sound the same as a passive bass. For pop and funk it would be great I'm sure, but not my kind of music. Also the bridge humbucker is quite different to a jazz pickup.

[skankdelvar]

In the world of geetarists the badass is currently in serious disfavour; given explanation is that all the extra mass reduces sustain and robs tone.

Funny old world, eh?