Fretless tone

[badboy1984]

I currently own and play a Westone 1A fretless Bass, is active and passive. The active system on this bass is funny because you can adjust the passive tone knob along with the active tone knob. The active tone knob is either boost bass and cut trebel or boost treble and cut bass.

I find it abit hard to get the right fretless tone that is not muddy. What advice you guys can give me to dial in the right tone.

I definite don't want muddy tone but a nice soft mellow tone with the mwah tone.

[r16ktx]

Curious tone system, I think I would not use the dual tone if I couldn't get anything decent out of it and ditto for both the passive and active individually. Maybe an outboard pre would do the trick?

[Grangur]

I had a Westone Thunder 1a. Mine was fretted, but the active tone controls are amazing. I came to the conclusion that it's probably best suited to slapping, which isn't my scene. So I removed the batteries and used it in passive mode all the time. It sounds good passive IMHO.

Maybe you need more of a boost in what you want to do. If so, as above, use an outboard pre?

[badboy1984]

I only use the fretless when i play for a church band on sunday. Probaby no access to outboard pre, i might have to mess around with the 7 band EQ on the trace elliot combo they got in church.

[HowieBass]

I've got a Westone Spectrum LX bass that uses a similar tone shaping system; from what I hear with mine I believe that the active control boosts a set amount (of dB) which is sweepable (by frequency). The interaction with the passive (treble cut) control can be a little confusing but you really can do a lot with it as Grangur says. My go to setting is typically no treble cut on the passive and boost the bass maybe at about the halfway point between the centre-detent and fully anticlockwise. Bear in mind that a lot of what you hear with a fretless comes from the setup and any vibrato you apply when stopping (fingering) the string. You'll likely need to check that the nut slots are deep enough, have the fingerboard with perhaps a little less relief that a fretted bass and get the action so that you get 'mwahh' but no 'sizzle' (which is what I call it when the strings are too low). You might have some fretless sound in your head that you're familiar with on record - bear in mind that you might have heard some effects used; perhaps slight chorus and slight reverb. HTH

[badboy1984]

Setup wise on the bass is good and I like it. I also use rounds string as well. It comes down to definite is the tone I need to work on because playing the bass unplug I got that fretless sound in my head, but when plugged in, it all sound different.

[jimbobothy]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1461143761' post='3031759']
I've got a Westone Spectrum LX bass that uses a similar tone shaping system; from what I hear with mine I believe that the active control boosts a set amount (of dB) which is sweepable (by frequency). The interaction with the passive (treble cut) control can be a little confusing but you really can do a lot with it as Grangur says. My go to setting is typically no treble cut on the passive and boost the bass maybe at about the halfway point between the centre-detent and fully anticlockwise. Bear in mind that a lot of what you hear with a fretless comes from the setup and any vibrato you apply when stopping (fingering) the string. You'll likely need to check that the nut slots are deep enough, have the fingerboard with perhaps a little less relief that a fretted bass and get the action so that you get 'mwahh' but no 'sizzle' (which is what I call it when the strings are too low). You might have some fretless sound in your head that you're familiar with on record - bear in mind that you might have heard some effects used; perhaps slight chorus and slight reverb. HTH
[/quote]

Nice observations re action and sizzle, not something I'd thought about but makes sense lol! I've got a fretless Thumb 5 Broadneck that I occasionally play on Sunday at our church. However I use flats on that and the tone seems to fit in nicely.

[Highfox]

I don't know that bass, but in my humble experinace with fretless basses they need a couple of pickups and one right down near the bridge to get the burp burble and zing. Just my opinion.

[badboy1984]

The one i have is a soupbar type of P pickup on the p location.

[Highfox]

[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1461145364' post='3031770']
The one i have is a soupbar type of P pickup on the p location.
[/quote]
I had a fretless Precision, that really didn't do it for me.

[Sammers]

If I get lost with finding a likeable tone I just go and set everything flat on the EQ and make minor adjustments from there.
Muddy usually indicates you need to boost mids or cut bass a little bit.

Then again, if you find you don't like the flat sound of the instrument you might not find the sound you're after!

[HowieBass]

Have you tried flats on the Thunder yet? You'll get a lot more of the fundamental and fewer bright overtones; I reckon I've heard most fretless playing with flats rather than roundwound strings. The trouble is we can't hear the idealised fretless sound you've got in your head so it's difficult to know what direction you ought to take.

[badboy1984]

The tone that I really like is Pino Palladino's Wherever I lay my hat.

[Highfox]

[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1461147212' post='3031786']
The tone that I really like is Pino Palladino's Wherever I lay my hat.
[/quote]
I know this has been posted before, but always worth ano ther look. Can't work out if they are flats or rounds on his Stingray? Just like with fretted a lot of the tone is in your hands/fingers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRjiMN2qJHI

[juliusmonk]

I think it is going to be very difficult to get that tone with a PU in the P position. A Stingray has nothing to do with that tonally. The more you move the PU towards the bridge, more mwah. Plus technique, etc.

[ezbass]

[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1461147212' post='3031786']
The tone that I really like is Pino Palladino's Wherever I lay my hat.
[/quote]The pickup position on the 'Ray adds a good helping of mids to the tone. Back then I'm pretty sure his 'Ray had roundwounds and he also used a chorus pedal for that track.

Edited April 20, 2016 by ezbass

[drTStingray]

I have a fretless Ray (largely because I like Pino's playing so much from that era - well from all eras, and Jaco, who you can also attempt to emulate with it).

Several points - that type of sound (note swell/mwah) is present on my fretless Ray acoustically - the construction/design of the bass create that - the tone controls/pre amp etc add to that (in my case, the guitar has a three band EQ and the mid range control can be used to pump up or lower the amplified sound of the mwah and harmonics - a 2 band Ray like Pino's can be adjusted by dropping the bass/treble controls to bring up the mid range).

Notice where he's plucking the strings and how he varies the position/intensity to change the attack. The level of skill and control is great (way beyond me).

Finally, if you watch him playing the same bass with Paul Young on the Live Aid show and other performances you'll see how he turns it from a fretless tone monster into a snarling funk and slap machine at will. It's the characteristics of the bass plus an extremely talented player.

[badboy1984]

Well after trying to get a similar tone last night, I come to a conclusion is myself that has the problem. I can get a similar tone with the right EQ but is me thats no use to playing with the tone. Is one of those things, I got a tone in my head that i want or like but when i actually come to use it I can't get use to it.

For some reason when something is not sounded right I just crack the bass up abit and gone back to my fretted tone.

I do get more of that fretless tone when i play near the neck tho.

[drTStingray]

[quote name='badboy1984' timestamp='1461216896' post='3032465']
Well after trying to get a similar tone last night, I come to a conclusion is myself that has the problem. I can get a similar tone with the right EQ but is me thats no use to playing with the tone. Is one of those things, I got a tone in my head that i want or like but when i actually come to use it I can't get use to it.

For some reason when something is not sounded right I just crack the bass up abit and gone back to my fretted tone.

I do get more of that fretless tone when i play near the neck tho.
[/quote]

If you haven't got a mid range tone EQ control on the bass have you tried upping it on your amp a little? That in combination with where you pluck the strings may help.

[paul_5]

I've always found that I prefer the sound of fretless J basses (or any bass with two pickups) to those with a single pickup.

Apart from Musicman basses.

Maybe it's just P basses…

[Jebo1]

If you have the money, it's worth trying a SansAmp bass driver (it's a DI as well, so you're saving money on having two boxes!), or if money is tighter you can try the Nathan East pre. Both will add a boost and some tone shaping. The Apex Bass Exciter is also worth looking at. I've had all three in the past actually (I don't play fretless anymore, I play DB instead).

A lot of it is about working out the issues in your technique and weaknesses of your bass and then find either practice regimes, or pedals and devices that can help you to fix them. Like a lot of people, I wanted to try and get that Jaco tone (which I now find horridly nasal), which took some doing, but it's good fun. One thing to do is to play and record phrases and then play them bike while trying new things, settings and so on. One issue I always see fretless players struggle with is fingering. Now I'm not suggesting you fall into this trap, but the fingers need such a little amount of pressure to stop the string, it's the grace with which you play fretless bass that makes it sing.

I spent years trying, and then realised the sound I wanted was a DB in the end anyway.