Not happy with my sound! Bit lost

[Twincam]

Right I'm lost a bit on what to do.
My current setup is pretty simple.
Jim fleeting custom 4 string. A nice bass is active and passive fitted with nordstrand big singles, John east pre amp. Rotosound roundwounds. It's a fairly well rounded bass.
Amp is a Aguilar ag500sc
Cab is an old te combo with head removed, some sort of celestion speaker is in there. It's sealed and reacts very different to various amps so it doesn't colour the sound. Nothing spectacular but it works.
I play simple stuff nothing flash at all.

Looking for a well rounded tone, slightly dark, rock oriented. But with soul and clear in the mids, treble. Last week I had an Ashdown abm evo iii 500 and I had fender flats fitted. I was happy with the rounded tone, but I thought the treble, mids lacked something not woolly as some say but not defined and it was to me for some songs lacking, rock stuff it was great for.

Before that I was using an Ampeg b2r which was ok but zero soul, very sterile and not that powerful.

And before the a Trace Elliot gp7 300, very loud! But hate the trace sound.

Now I have the Aguilar and it sounds great, has soul, volume and the heft, but I there something in the tone I'm not keen on, its a bit too transparent maybe, it makes my bass sound like it does unamped. I'm not keen on flats unamped so I switched to rounds. And now it sounds exactly like my old trace Elliot and USA P bass which was a good sound I guess but not what I'm looking for. I'm pretty sure there's something in the mids that I'm not getting on with. Growls nice enough. Pre amp is sensitive to playing hard and not in a way I like. In some ways the sound is too complex for me and would suit a better player who can get the most out of it. Make sense?

I've played around with the eq on amp and bass it changes the tone but I can't get away from the base tone as it were. This is my 3rd amp in 4,5 or so weeks.
I think I like the Ashdown for rock, punk etc and the Aguilar for other stuff and amazingly on occasion the Ampeg b2r was so sterile it sounded alright you couldn't like it but couldn't hate it lol. Sometimes it seems less hassle to have a boring tone.
I like musical valve amps too expensive for me at the min, not keen on the weight either or the slight worry of reliability. The bugera infinity is possibly in reach or something used. Surely there's a solid state amp out there for me tho.

Totally lost with how to find what I'm looking for.

[Painy]

I know what you mean about the transparency of the Aguilar. I use the AG500 (the 2 channel version) and it has a great tone but for me it needed a little something extra. I'm now running through an Aphex Aural Xciter and a Tech21 into the AG500 and it sounds immense. Maybe trying a pre-amp pedal in front of the Aguilar could be something to try as a less expensive option than replacing the whole amp?

Edited April 24, 2016 by Painy

[Twincam]

[quote name='Painy' timestamp='1461514619' post='3035306']
I know what you mean about the transparency of the Aguilar. I use the AG500 (the 2 channel version) and it has a great tone but for me it needed a little something extra. I'm now running through an Aphex Aural Xciter and a Tech21 into the AG500 and it sounds immense. Maybe trying a pre-amp pedal in front of the Aguilar could be something to try as a less expensive option than replacing the whole amp?
[/quote]

Yes I thought about this, it should take pedal very well. Not a big peddle person but possibly worth a go.

[chris_b]

I'd put it all through a good cab first.

[Twincam]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1461515750' post='3035313']
I'd put it all through a good cab first.
[/quote]

I think it's inherent to the amp it's not a tone adjustment a good cab would make , if that makes sense. In fact I dare say a good cab would really bring out the Factors I'm struggling with even more.
I dunno you could certainly be right though.

[RhysP]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1461516917' post='3035321']
I think it's inherent to the amp it's not a tone adjustment a good cab would make , if that makes sense. In fact I dare say a good cab would really bring out the Factors I'm struggling with even more.
I dunno you could certainly be right though.
[/quote]

I think you're right here - if one of the things you don't like about the amp is it's transparency then I would think that putting it through a "better" cab is only going to enhance the things you don't like
(By "better" I'm assuming the poster meant something like a bergatino or vanderkley type of thing).

[Number6]

Aah i remember the days when most people just had a Carlsbro combo for the mere mortals and a Trace for those that imagined themselves immortals.....

[Lozz196]

I`ve found TE cabs very brittle sounding when I`ve used them, voiced in an area of treble that got on my nerves if honest. Given what I`ve read about the AG amps also having a bit of a mid-forward sound, the pairing could most likely be what is causing this. Plus, from experience with my Tonehammers, Aguilar amps take a lot of tweaking to find "your" sound. They`re not like some amps where everything flat sounds good, they are amps that are made to be tweaked. Takes a while, but once there, well you find it was worth it. I`d echo Chris on this one, look at playing it through a different cab first (as oppose to buying one) and see if that eliminates anything.

[Twincam]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1461523027' post='3035404']
I`ve found TE cabs very brittle sounding when I`ve used them, voiced in an area of treble that got on my nerves if honest. Given what I`ve read about the AG amps also having a bit of a mid-forward sound, the pairing could most likely be what is causing this. Plus, from experience with my Tonehammers, Aguilar amps take a lot of tweaking to find "your" sound. They`re not like some amps where everything flat sounds good, they are amps that are made to be tweaked. Takes a while, but once there, well you find it was worth it. I`d echo Chris on this one, look at playing it through a different cab first (as oppose to buying one) and see if that eliminates anything.
[/quote]

This makes sense. I will try the head with a few cabs first. The amp is a bit mid forward but in an interesting way.
Also turned the gain down a hint seems to of improved things. My bass is actually fairly tame I've never had an amp with such a sensitive gain. Which is a good thing.

[Twincam]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1461522686' post='3035398']
Aah i remember the days when most people just had a Carlsbro combo for the mere mortals and a Trace for those that imagined themselves immortals.....
[/quote]

I've had both and the carlsbro was boring as hell with a horrible drone the TE was just horrid but loud and would probably cut through anything.

In a way the more my equipment gets better the more time I spend worrying about how I sound rather than playing!

[spyder]

Have you tried the Tech 21 VT500.
It can go from a very valve like tone to a fairly clean but coloured sound.
I also became fed up with the ultra transparent tone and found going simple and stripped down with just a passive P bass and the VT500 for colour. Just add a cab and you have a simple bass sound that punches.

[Number6]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1461524169' post='3035427']


I've had both and the carlsbro was boring as hell with a horrible drone the TE was just horrid but loud and would probably cut through anything.

In a way the more my equipment gets better the more time I spend worrying about how I sound rather than playing!
[/quote]

Exactly my point.....we're spoilt nowadays.....back then you had no choice

[Twincam]

[quote name='Number6' timestamp='1461525285' post='3035450']


Exactly my point.....we're spoilt nowadays.....back then you had no choice
[/quote]

Back then??? That was last month for the te and 2013 for the carlsbro haha

[Number6]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1461527720' post='3035477']


Back then??? That was last month for the te and 2013 for the carlsbro haha
[/quote]

I used to like my Carlsbro but it was very heavy.

[skidder652003]

from the OP it sounds like you have a decent bass and a great amp but a pretty awful speaker, there's the weak link, the elephant in the room! If I wasn't going to ditch the lot and start again, my route would be to upgrade the speaker to (probably) something barefaced, and a great DI pedal for lots of options with blending with FOH, obviously Im a bit biased, but a DHA pedal is the mutts nuts for grit and "dark"

Edited April 24, 2016 by skidder652003

[Dan Dare]

I'd leave the credit and debit cards at home and go to a well stocked shop and spend a few hours playing with the toys there. I did that recently and ended up buying kit I didn't expect to own and which I wouldn't have chosen on the basis of what I've read or heard others say.

[Twincam]

A well stocked shop? Don't think there is any in the north east! Seriously. Guitar would be different but bass forget about it.

[barneyg42]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1461536837' post='3035569']
A well stocked shop? Don't think there is any in the north east! Seriously. Guitar would be different but bass forget about it.
[/quote]

A day trip to Bass Direct (Warwick)might be worth it?

[Phil Starr]

Yep, I think the solution is fairly simple. You've tried a range of amps and not liked the sound of any of them. It must be either the bass or the speakers.

Maybe head for the next Bass Bash in your area, or just networking with a few basschatters up there if you can't find a good shop?

[CamdenRob]

You don't really need an amp... or a cab.. or even a bass... It's all in the fingers

[lowland]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1461566426' post='3035625']
You don't really need an amp... or a cab.. or even a bass... It's all in the fingers
[/quote]

That was my first thought on seeing this thread. I played bass professionally in the late 70s/early 80s, and after a few decades' rest from it came back a couple of years ago in a fun covers band. Although the gear I have now is mostly better than what I had back then, what's really made a difference for me this time around has been in right hand fingerstyle technique: in the last 6 months I've started playing mostly between the two pickups (also Nordstrand Big Singles as it happens) instead of over the neck pickup or further to the left; also I've started to use the 'floating thumb' technique as opposed to thumb resting on the neck pickup or bass body. It's also worth noting that I used to have the strap quite short for that 'elbows stuck out' look in a vain attempt to come across like a serious player - it occurred to me this time around that all it achieved was to put arms, wrists and fingers under a certain amount of default tension, a thing of the past now I have a longer strap which puts my left forearm nearly parallel to the floor.

The cumulative effect has been to give my tone a nice added definition while retaining all the thump I need, plus offering considerably more damping control, articulation and comfort, notably on the funkier and/or quicker tunes - Duran Duran's 'Rio' is an example of where this has helped. Although what works for me might not help you, Twincam, I was surprised at how much difference it made - might be worth a try before you spend good money on changing gear.

Edited April 25, 2016 by lowland

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='lowland' timestamp='1461572650' post='3035663']
That was my first thought on seeing this thread. I played bass professionally in the late 70s/early 80s, and after a few decades' rest from it came back a couple of years ago in a fun covers band. Although the gear I have now is mostly better than what I had back then, what's really made a difference for me this time around has been in right hand fingerstyle technique: in the last 6 months I've started playing mostly between the two pickups (also Nordstrand Big Singles as it happens) instead of over the neck pickup or further to the left; also I've started to use the 'floating thumb' technique as opposed to thumb resting on the neck pickup or bass body. It's also worth noting that I used to have the strap quite short for that elbows stuck out look in a vain attempt to come across like a serious player - it occurred to me this time around that all it achieved was to put arms, wrists and fingers under a certain amount of default tension, a thing of the past now now I have a longer strap which puts my left forearm nearly parallel to the floor.

The cumulative effect has been to give my tone a nice added definition while retaining all the thump I need, plus offering considerably more damping control, articulation and comfort, notably on the funkier and/or quicker tunes - Duran Duran's 'Rio' is an example of one where this has helped. Although what works for me might not help you, Twincam, I was surprised at how much difference it made - might be worth a try before you spend good money on changing gear.
[/quote]

You are of course correct... technique, muting, ghost notes etc have a huge influence on the sound we produce from our instruments. I'm enjoying listening to the isolated basslines in BCs new monthly noodle comp, as it's interesting to hear how different players can sound so different.

I'm going to have to admit to my original post being of the facetious variety though... there is a long running BC mantra of "it's all in the fingers" implying that nothing else matters, when obviously different basses amps, strings etc all sound completely different.

[lowland]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1461573010' post='3035667']

I'm going to have to admit to my original post being of the facetious variety though... there is a long running BC mantra of "it's all in the fingers" implying that nothing else matters, when obviously different basses amps, strings etc all sound completely different.
[/quote]

'Like'.

Although I've become aware of the trend recently, also 'it's funny 'cos it's true', and as a bit of a convert I hope Twincam might at least consider playing adjustment before parting with hard-earned cash.

[lowland]

PS CamdenRob: could you please link to this noodle comp whereof you speak?

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1461511370' post='3035270']
.... it makes my bass sound like it does unamped ....
[/quote]

Get a bass that sounds better unamped. Thats not an entirely flippant suggestion BTW, if you dont have right basic ingredients going into your sound then its very hard to make up for it later in the chain.