Need help with fretless!

[lemmywinks]

Hi all
I've had my Warmoth fretless for a while now and have a hankering to string it with roundwounds.
It's a lovely bass and sounds top with flats on but i find myself playing my jaco copy instead because i prefer the sound and feel of rounds.

However i'm a bit hesitant because of possible wear and tear on the fretboard. It's a realy pretty piece of pau ferro and wouldn't want it churned up!

Anyone know how durable pau ferro is with rounds?
Maybe there is a brand that is kinder to fretless fingerboards?

Any help is much appreciated!

[noelk27]

Opt for the centre line, and use half- / ground wounds.

[bass_ferret]

Yep - use halfs. Look on the basschat wiki.

[BigRedX]

If you're after the roundwound fretless sound then you may well find that halves won't do it for you. Nickels rounds are kinder to fretless boards than steels.

[Prosebass]

Would you buy an Aston and drive it sedately or leave it in the garage for fear of getting stone chips on it ?
Defeats the object of buying it in the first place.
Try roundwounds and see if the sound is what you want, if it is just enjoy playing it.
Wear will depend on how much you use it and how aggressive your style is.
I think Pino Palladino went through 4 fretboards on his Musicman bass.

[lemmywinks]

I take it opt for the centre line means directly below the string?
I tend to use horizontal and vertical vibrato on fretless (if that makes sense), whichever is quickest to execute and sounds better in the given situation. I tried the elitels nickels on fretted and didn't like them but don't know how good they'd sound on fretless. Can anyone reccommend any brands?
Alternatively is there a brand of rounds that maybe have thinner coils, or that aren't as rough? I guess they wouldn't grind the board down too much.

Is pau ferro hard enough to withstand rounds or is ebony the only viable solution?

Edited September 26, 2008 by lemmywinks

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='293177' date='Sep 26 2008, 11:36 PM']Would you buy an Aston and drive it sedately or leave it in the garage for fear of getting stone chips on it ?
Defeats the object of buying it in the first place.
Try roundwounds and see if the sound is what you want, if it is just enjoy playing it.
Wear will depend on how much you use it and how aggressive your style is.
I think Pino Palladino went through 4 fretboards on his Musicman bass.[/quote]

In the ideal world this is what i'd do! However can't afford to have work done on a bass which i don't gig with. I'd love to replace the fretboard every time it's needed but don't have the funds! I'm looking for a similar sound but without the ballache of replacing the fingerboard when needed!
I bought the bass cos it was extremely cheap (£335 with gator case), i already have a fretless with rounds on (and usa fender electrics) which sounds awesome, just want to get the same feel from my warmoth without ruining it!
I don't think my fretless style is too aggressive but my other fretless is already worn (rosewood board), so want to safeguard this one a bit.

Anyone here use rounds with pau ferro?

[bass_ferret]

I still say try halfs - I use Status Hotwires. Fretless vibrato can be played classical style by rolling your fingers up and down the string rather than bending.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='293294' date='Sep 27 2008, 08:51 AM']I still say try halfs - I use Status Hotwires. Fretless vibrato can be played classical style by rolling your fingers up and down the string rather than bending.[/quote]

Ok, think i'll try em. Cheers dudes!

[Cernael]

I think the "centre line" refered to was meant to be "the compromise between flats and rounds; grounds"...

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='Cernael' post='293361' date='Sep 27 2008, 12:08 PM']I think the "centre line" refered to was meant to be "the compromise between flats and rounds; grounds"...[/quote]

Ah, excuse my stupidity then!

[Cernael]

You're welcome, no biggie, glad to help.

[noelk27]

[quote name='Cernael' post='293361' date='Sep 27 2008, 11:08 AM']I think the "centre line" refered to was meant to be "the compromise between flats and rounds; grounds".[/quote]

Indeed it did- though I did play cello for nine years, so do us classical techniques often.

I couldn’t comment on pau ferro boards, as I’ve never had one on a fretless. But I had a similar dilemma on a previous occasion. Then, my main fretless had an ebony board and my backups had rosewood boards. The strings I experimented with were D’Addario, which at that time produce it’s Prism, XL, Half Round and Chrome strings. Prisms were too hot, Chromes too dull, but between the XL and the Half Round, other than the first week or so when the XL had that bite that a new steel stings has, there was very little to distinguish the XL from the Half in terms of output. The Half, though, has the advantage of being kinder to your board, kinder to your fingers, and you’ll also notice less player noise. I also felt the Half lasted longer, though I’ve no explanation for that.

There are other approaches- epoxy and polyester coatings- but trying Half Round is possibly the cheapest - ‘cause we all need to change strings from time to time. And unlike Pino, we can’t all afford to have antique boards from uprights cut and planed to fit our favourite instruments.

[Mr. Foxen]

You won't necessarily have to change it that often, when it gets chudded up enough to be a problem, a dressing is all it needs anyway, much less hasssle, repeatable depending on how thick your board is.

[lemmywinks]

All quality information, thanks again!
Think i'll try the half rounds and see if i like em. Don't think i'd coat the fingerboard on this bass, i'm considering it on my other fretless as it's always gonna be my "try it out" bass. I guess that's a different thread though and there's probably a wealth of information on this site already so i'll get searching!

[BassBod]

The best strings I've used for fretless are DR Sunbeams - nickel rounds, but a bit less tension than most. They seem to be pretty gentle, and sound fantastic but in my experience fingerboard wear has a lot to do with how you play. Some people have a lighter touch, some just hammer it down. The wear needs to be bad before it starts to mess up your sound, so I'd go for the sound you want first and deal with the wear later.

Depends on the thickness of the board, but you can get it "dressed" a number of times before you run out of wood, and then you can still replace it.

Superglue can be used, but very thinly, to give a protective matt finish that doesn't change the sound as much as a full glossy coat. Its a pain to do, but works well.

The other thing to try is black plastic coated flatwounds. The ones sold by Status sound wonderful...not a full Jaco sound, but a bit of Ron Carter??

BB

[Lfalex v1.1]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='293185' date='Sep 26 2008, 11:52 PM']Anyone here use rounds with pau ferro?[/quote]

Yep.

A 1990 Musicman 'Ray V. It's got a Pau Ferro 'board, and I've always used rounds.
Doesn't get played an awful lot, but the wear is quite acceptable. Still on the first board.
How much is a re-board, and with what frequency would you need to do it?
I'd guess at £200 every couple of years, max. I'd not deem that to be too excessive.

As for string choice, if you do go for full-on rounds, Nickels are kinder to fretless 'boards, but you may find that coated strings help balance out the damage between string coating and fingerboard.

[MoonBassAlpha]

I've always used rounds, have elites on a headless defretted with rosewood board for about 5 years as my main bass, and there isn't enough wear to affect the sound/playing in ANY WAY. Sure, you can see little lines but it really doesn't sound. I've now got a fretless neck on one of my U.S. Masters basses with Pao Ferro board. It has marked up straight away, but I don't think audible wear will be an issue for years to be honest, but don't do vibrato as you would on a fretted, as this WILL wear more quickly, and there is just no need to do it like that!

[lemmywinks]

Cheers guys, think halfs sound like the first port of call when i get around to string shopping. I was gonna mention 'rays as all the fretless ones i've seen have pau ferro 'boards, what strings are they shipped with?


Also where do you guys get Status Hotwires? I've not bought strings online for a bit!

EDIT: Anybody know what D'Addario ENR71 Half Round Reg. Lt Ga. Bass Stirngs sound like? They seem cheap enough for me to give em a go

Edited October 8, 2008 by lemmywinks