Rough spec ideas?

[Finbar]

[i]Initial post edited for clarity and specs.[/i]

Okay, so now I'm earning some more money, I have vague gear related plans. After I've made my rig a bit bigger, I'm looking at saving for a second bass from Mr Jon Shuker.

I think with the initial sound of this thread, I may have come across as sounding like I had less of an idea of what I wanted than I do. So just to clarify, here's a rough spec as far as I've thought it through. Some of it I've banded between myself and Jon a bit, some of it is straight off the top of my head:

7 strings (BEADGCF)
24 frets
Birdseye maple fretboard - I LOVE the look of these, especially with that high gloss
Two way truss rod
Carbon fibre reinforcement
Medium frets
Graphite nut
16mm string spacing at bridge
Gotoh GB707 tuners
Either an ABM or Hipshot 7 string bridge, depending on availability, and what Jon reckons to them.
Side LEDs (possibly frontal too, though it depends how garish I'm feeling...) most likely in red.

I'll be going for something like Ash for the body, as I think it should have a bit of heft (but not too much) to it, and should also give me a nice bit of bite.
For the neck, I'd like to stick some Wenge in there, for a bit of growl, and some flamed maple (more for the looks to be honest), with the emphasis on the maple. Most likely a 5 piece.

As I mention further down in this thread, I have been doing a bit of research into other basses and things for how I'd like the looks to turn out, and I ended up finding it right here in this board! I LOVE the finish on Rich's Shuker J5, and I think I will be going for something very similar - it looks especially nice because it doesn't look too glossy, and the sunburst doesn't go all the way to a black - that deep wine red at the edges is beautiful. The red sets off the maple fretboard particularly well.

The neck specs will be based on the last bass Jon built for me, which are in turn based on the neck specs of the Conklin I used to own. However, I think I'm going to try and push the neck depth a little slimmer this time. I'm wary of doing it too much though, and taking out the natural curve of a neck which makes it feel ergonomic to play. I'll see what Jon says!

I'm leaning towards a bolt on neck at this stage.

Either an ABM or Hipshot 7 string bridge, depending on availability, and what Jon reckons to them.
Black hardware (I thought about straying from black for this one, but it looks so much classier than every other colour really...)
Recessed Dunlop straplocks (had these fitted on my other bass, and they're also a nice touch to me)



So with all that in mind, here is I guess more specifically what I'm looking for input on:

Firstly, to get this out of the way - is graphite a possibility for the neck? I know this would mean no birdseye fretboard, which I would dearly love, but the benefits of graphite seem tremendous, and I do like the feel of it. I'm guessing to have one made to the dimensions I want would be a one-off custom job to make the tool for it and therefore be prohibitively expensive? If somebody can clarify and confirm that, I'll just forget about it

Top wood. I would like something a bit more exotic than a quilted/flamed maple. I've always been a fan of burled woods, and seeing Rich's J5 has again made me think the burl maple would be an excellent choice. I'd love to see some examples of some slightly more unusual woods that would look good under a coloured finish though, if anyone has any pictures lying around, as I haven't decided on this by any means

Fanned frets. As has been mentioned, I would love to give something with fanned frets a go. Ideally a 6/7+, but even a 4 would give me a good idea to start things from. If ANYBODY can help with this (I'm in Sheffield, which pretty much counts d-basser out ), I would be in indebted to them. I am very much looking into the possibility of taking a road trip to London to try Dingwalls and have a bit of a nice weekend holiday Having read a lot about them, there are very few bad words spoken about fanned frets on the internet. If they are as natural to play as everyone seems to say, then the concept makes complete sense. I would love a bit less tension in my C and F strings, and a tad more in my low B. Again, what seems to be the 'norm' for fanned frets? 33"-36" seems to be what I'm thinking of - but I'd like to see what other people are using in that respect.

Electronics. ACG filter preamp is looking so so tasty, but would I use all of it? Probably not. Jon's JJ Burnel passive circuit is ALSO looking very tasty, and sounds rather good in the JJ sig bass, I must say ^_^ I am looking for an aggressive pick tone, and I'm not sure that's the ACG's forte, though I'm sure it can give it a good go. Has anybody had any experience using the ACG in this context? If I decide to go for active circuitry, I will definitely get Jon to put an active/passive switch in, and if I go passive, I will definitely get Jon to route the cavity out to accommodate one in the future I am so far undecided on pickups. Any suggestions on this front are very much welcome. I have a couple of ideas in mind, but this is one of the last areas to have attracted my consideration.



I'd still like to see some lovely pictures of more bizarre basses (preferably 7s), as the ones I've looked at have been a constant inspiration, as well of a constant reminder of what NOT to do

I hope that clears it up for people, and many thanks to anyone who's suggested ideas before - they all go in the melting pot

Edited September 29, 2008 by Finbar

[budget bassist]

Active electronics! you know you want to! OR, switchable active/passive!

Also, top wood = flame maple in some kind of trans burst, maybe green, blue, honey sunburst, up to you, i just think they look uber cool and it really suits that guy's dingwall (i can never remember names on this forum!!)

[Hamster]

Stone cladding - a lot of people like it on their houses. It adds a touch of class and makes you think you live / play bass in the Cotswolds

[7string]

[quote name='Finbar' post='293126' date='Sep 26 2008, 10:04 PM']I'm definitely looking at 7 strings, and definitely looking at fanned frets (any ideas on what a good fan is? I was thinking 36"-33", but I'm not sure!). Thinking I want a very plug in and play kind of sound, so probably something passive - might ask about those JJ Burnel electronics actually! An aggressive pick tone is what I'm really looking for, but with some good sounds for finger playing too. I love birdseye maple. Definitely having that as the fingerboard wood. LEDs would be supercool.[/quote]

7 strings!!!! Great minds think alike and all that

As usual this is just my opinion etc, etc.....

I had a look at fanned frets but didn't go with them. Having since played a fanned Dingwall 6 string I'm glad I didn't. As you get higher up the neck, the fret directly below the dots on the side of neck are a semitone lower as you think. So the note below the 17th fret side dot is the E not the F (I know I'm not explaining this very well but I hope you get the idea) and I found this mighty confusing Also, the availability of strings may become a problem because of the extra long scale length of the B string, so potentially you might not be able to get your preferred brand and weight of string.

Saying that many players really like the fanned frets, so it might just be me!

Birdseye maple, superb choice and it looks excellent. LEDs are great as well (I have both on my Sei 7; told you, great minds and all that).

If you're going passive, have a full-size control cavity routed anyway. Then if you decide you want use a preamp later, it can go straight in and all you might have to do is drill some holes for the extra controls. The bass doesn't need major surgery. Initially, I went the passive route with just a volume control and a coil-tap button. Unfortunately, I didn't get the sound that I wanted, so had a preamp installed. Now it sounds really full and aggressive with lots of low end.

I have a Schack 3 band eq in my Sei 7. Inside the control cavity there is a series of dip switches which alter the centre frequencies of all 3 bands (I can dig out the details if you want). I've changed the switches and it works really well. I think that this makes the bass more versatile as you could have it set up for one kind of gig and then change it for another.

The Schack is great, but if I had to change the preamp tomorrow, I would go for the ACG filter-based pre [url="http://www.acguitars.co.uk"]www.acguitars.co.uk[/url]. It's just incredibly flexible and powerful.

Hope all this helps !!

[velvetkevorkian]

A flamethrower for the headstock.

Some kind of OTT inlay- like the Vietnamese ones on Ebay but without looking like it was drawn by a twelve year old. If you could work the LEDs into it that would be cool, IMHO anyway

[bnt]

Re fanned frets: it's a custom, so you could specify the "spread" to make it less extreme than the Dingwalls if you liked.

Another customisable factor is the location of the "vertical fret", which is the 7th fret on the Dingwalls, but 9th fret on [url="http://www.conklinguitars.com/facebass/facebass8/ziricote9desc.html"]this Conklin[/url], and 12th fret on other custom basses I've seen, such as [url="http://buildingtheergonomicguitar.com/2008/07/fanned-fret-bass-guitar.html"]this Garncarz[/url]. The Dingwall positioning gives less "slope" on lower frets, but more on higher frets.

If it was a 6-er I would have recommended a polyphonic output, such as a [url="http://www.rmcpickup.com/"]RMC Polydrive[/url], to run into a MIDI converter or a Roland V-Bass unit. On a 7-string... for the top strings only?

Edited September 27, 2008 by bnt

[Sibob]

Sounds like this bass could quite easily become a mish-mash of ideas!

I hope not, there's beauty in simplicity
Good luck

Si

[Finbar]

Ahaha, I don't want a mishmash. Overcomplicating a bass is one of the things I absolutely abhor.

But having a lot of things to choose your simple elements from is a nice luxury

I may play 7 strings, but I have pretty boring tastes apart from that. I don't need piezos/MIDI outputs/headless/singlecuts/13 band EQs to have a bass I enjoy.

Thanks to anyone who's written something though. Ideas are forming, and I may well ignore everyone in the thread As soon as I've rustled something up, I'll probably let you all see my initial thoughts

I REALLY need to get my hands on a bass with fanned frets - preferably a six or more stringed one. Even if only for half an hour!

[mathewsanchez]

kahler bass tremolo!!!

[Tait]

sorry... but why ask us? im guessing if its a custom bass its gonna cost a lot of money, so why not go for your own likes? everyone likes different things.

anyway, if you want my opinion i'd say go for a p/mm setup with a rosewood fretboard. 3 way switch - i got a p/mm bass and they do not sound good together, i cant see there being much point in a blend. as i said, just my opinion though.

[Finbar]

[quote name='lwtait' post='294242' date='Sep 28 2008, 11:07 PM']sorry... but why ask us? im guessing if its a custom bass its gonna cost a lot of money, so why not go for your own likes? everyone likes different things.[/quote]

I think you miss my point. I'm not going to get a bass built on the whims of the BC community. That would be ridiculous, as you have identified. It will be entirely what I want. 100%. I'm doing a lot of research into it, but I just like to see examples of other nice looking things - its easy to miss something you've never thought a possibility before! Inspiration comes from the strangest places, after all.

[Sibob]

Not that I'm dismissing the validity of the thread, but I'm kinda in agreement with Iwtait.
Surely a custom bass is usually as a result of someone who has identified a need for a feature, or combination thereof, on an instrument that they can't obtain from a stock instrument, and so solve the problem with a custom build!

I think what I'm trying to say is that, in my opinion, saying you're having a custom bass, then deciding what problems you wanna solve with it could be the wrong way to go about it as there really are soooo many options available that it could become confused!

I'd say try some fanned frets before you go for the option, The Gallery stock Dingwall so that should be your first port of call!
I'm a big fan of birdseye maple fingerboards....so thats my two pence on the spec
Regarding electronics, would passive electronics be able to do the low F# justice?

Si

Edited September 28, 2008 by Sibob

[charic]

As your fishing for unusual ideas heres my £0.02 + VAT

:- Soapbar at bridge/ MM at neck or vice versa.
:- two tone paint job, white/black, white/blue, silver/blue etc etc etc.
:- Inlay?
:- how about a zebrano neck? should sound like wenge but look amazing, not heard of one before off the top of me head
:- custom designed scratchplate?
:- body wood is not something i can suggest as i dont know what you play
:- facing if not painted... quilt maple? zebrano? flame maple? walnut? mac ebony? spalt? burl?
:- matching headstock ofc
:- think heavily on what stringers? do you want them dyed? or natural? To fit in with the neck? Contrast?

[Finbar]

[quote name='Sibob' post='294274' date='Sep 29 2008, 12:53 AM']Not that I'm dismissing the validity of the thread, but I'm kinda in agreement with Iwtait.
Surely a custom bass is usually as a result of someone who has identified a need for a feature, or combination thereof, on an instrument that they can't obtain from a stock instrument, and so solve the problem with a custom build![/quote]
Sure, I see that. Basically, I play sevens. Off the shelf, I don't have many choices. I know some basic things about what I want, though its mostly cosmetic things I'm looking for - I want to see some unusual things, which I may not copy, but simply want to get ideas from The 'important' specs are pretty much all under my belt already (the ones that would determine the size of the neck/how it is to play etc). I've solved a lot of problems with my first seven from Jon already, I'm just looking to expand on the same template and tailor it. The superficial cosmetic things about it are possibly more important, and also some more specific issues. Perhaps I should reword the initial post to make that a little more clear, and give people more of an idea?

[quote]I'd say try some fanned frets before you go for the option, The Gallery stock Dingwall so that should be your first port of call!
I'm a big fan of birdseye maple fingerboards....so thats my two pence on the spec
Regarding electronics, would passive electronics be able to do the low F# justice?[/quote]
Yeah, I wouldn't drop any money on fanned frets until I know I'd get on with them. The Gallery is somewhere I'd love to visit, its just a complete mission from where I live. If its the only viable place to try the things out though, then it may have to be done!

And the electronics - I'd be stringing BEADGCF. No F# involved And I'm pretty much torn between the simplicity (and no batteries!) of passive, and the ACG pre, as I've heard nothing but rave reviews about it, and something with a more flexible EQ than my other Shuker may be quite a neat toy to have!

EDIT: First post is now VERY much revised to be a bit more specific

Edited September 29, 2008 by Finbar

[paul h]

The only thing I have ever really come up with for my "fantasy" bass is to have fret markers that match the exposed pole pieces in the pickups. The covers of which would match the fretboard.

P.

[Mikey R]

[quote name='Finbar' post='293126' date='Sep 26 2008, 10:04 PM']Fanned frets. As has been mentioned, I would love to give something with fanned frets a go. Ideally a 6/7+, but even a 4 would give me a good idea to start things from. If ANYBODY can help with this (I'm in Sheffield, which pretty much counts d-basser out ), I would be in indebted to them.[/quote]

I work in Sheffield, Im puting together a fanned 5 prototype for Merton so if you dont mind waiting a few weeks till its strung up, you could try it out I cant guarantee the quality at this point, it wont be a Shuker for sure!

Otherwise, I rekon there will be a fair few fans at Bassday in Manchester

Edited October 1, 2008 by Mikey R

[alexclaber]

Q-Tuners and passive electronics. I dare you!

And I'd definitely go for fanned frets on a 7-string. 36" scale works great on a five but the tension would be crazy on a high F-string. A 36" or 37" scale low B will totally change your tonal perspective.

Alex

[Finbar]

I tuned my low B up to a C yesterday briefly, and the clarity and tension on it was superb. If I had that kind of tension in my B all the time, I'd be happy.

I did look at Q-Tuners actually! I'm interested for sure. But I don't think they're the pickup of choice for pick playing. I know that isn't your thing at all Alex, but do you have any insight on that?

And Mikey - let me know for sure I'm free most afternoons after work (about 3 onwards). I don't think I can make it to Bassday, but I can definitely make it somewhere in Sheffield Whereabouts are you based?

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Finbar' post='296990' date='Oct 1 2008, 07:39 PM']I tuned my low B up to a C yesterday briefly, and the clarity and tension on it was superb. If I had that kind of tension in my B all the time, I'd be happy.[/quote]

Tuning a 34" low B up to C will give the same tension as having that gauge string tuned to B on a 36" scale. Great isn't it! In terms of playability the extra stretch is like playing everything one fret lower - the switch wasn't a problem for me at all, nor do I have problems when I occasionally play 34" scale basses.

[quote name='Finbar' post='296990' date='Oct 1 2008, 07:39 PM']I did look at Q-Tuners actually! I'm interested for sure. But I don't think they're the pickup of choice for pick playing. I know that isn't your thing at all Alex, but do you have any insight on that?[/quote]

Q-Tuners don't really sound like anything - they're very open sounding with almost zero humps or dips in response. If you can make a nice sound with your bass unplugged then Q-Tuners will sound fantastic on it. If you use Q-Tuners into an ACG preamp you could get the sound of almost any pickup you wanted by simulating the response curves (which is a function of the pickup resonance). I'm writing a new song with a very rhythmic 16th note part which seems to be rather blistertastic so I might try that with a pick - I'm sure it'll sound great!

If you've tried an Alembic or Wal bass with the EQ set flat that's probably not that far removed from the Q-Tuner sound (or lack of it).

Alex

[Mikey R]

[quote name='Finbar' post='296990' date='Oct 1 2008, 07:39 PM']I did look at Q-Tuners actually! I'm interested for sure. But I don't think they're the pickup of choice for pick playing. I know that isn't your thing at all Alex, but do you have any insight on that?[/quote]

If you want slanted pickups for a fanned bass, then Im not sure if the BL series Q-Tuners would work, the pole pieces wouldnt be under the string any more. I would guess the BS would be fine though, just like any other single coil.

[quote name='Finbar' post='296990' date='Oct 1 2008, 07:39 PM']And Mikey - let me know for sure [/quote]

Just follow Mertons thread
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21386"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21386[/url]

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Mikey R' post='297549' date='Oct 2 2008, 01:32 PM']If you want slanted pickups for a fanned bass, then Im not sure if the BL series Q-Tuners would work, the pole pieces wouldnt be under the string any more. I would guess the BS would be fine though, just like any other single coil.[/quote]

The Q-Tuners are not designed to have the pole pieces under the strings, that's why there are so many pole pieces.

Alex

[Brave Sir Robin]

you may need a longer pickup as the area to cover increases

[Finbar]

I would hazard a guess that the BL-6 would justabout fit (I like small string spacings), as some of the 6 string EMG pickups (and I'm sure many others) also do. However, when you take into account the slant, they may not quite be long enough, as you suggest. I'd be interested to see about that.

I'm still not totally convinced about the Q-Tuners being the best for using with a pick. Things like EMGs and Seymour Duncans may not give such a perfect replication of the bass' tone, but you know what you're getting with them, and they'll be plenty aggressive. I really want to like the Q-Tuners though!

And here's a couple of pics of Rich's J5 (hope you don't mind!) so you can see where I'm coming from lookswise

Edited October 2, 2008 by Finbar

[Mikey R]

[quote name='Finbar' post='298084' date='Oct 2 2008, 10:16 PM']I would hazard a guess that the BL-6 would justabout fit (I like small string spacings), as some of the 6 string EMG pickups (and I'm sure many others) also do. However, when you take into account the slant, they may not quite be long enough, as you suggest. I'd be interested to see about that.[/quote]

Merton and I are using single coils (Mertons gone for Wizard 84s)

The pickups have a string spacing of 19mm, the spacing on the bass is 17mm, which gives us just enough slant for the 34 -> 35.5 inch scale.

If you want Neos, you could have some made up specially for you - SGD makes neo pickups, I think I remember him saying he always uses bar magnets instead of poles to avoid string spacing issues as well, so thats good for a fan too

EDIT: heres a link [url="http://www.sgd-lutherie.com/pages/products.html"]http://www.sgd-lutherie.com/pages/products.html[/url]

EDIT: I think neo magnets are an option on Wizard pickups..?

Edited October 3, 2008 by Mikey R