AKG D112 MK II vs Shure SM57 views please

[SH73]

After some research I bought SM57 for recording my bass and guitars and I am truly impressed with the results. Obviously the mic positioning deliveres different results. I'm thinking of getting AKG mic too so I can capture both low ends and highs of the bass. I tried mic and di but regardless how much pro producers swear by it, I had not had good results.
What mics do you guys use for bass recording?

[Dad3353]

I use different mics for recording than from 'live' work, and depending on whether the bass is isolated, or played with the other instruments in the same room. Generally, I use a large-capsule condenser mic, placed around 1 m or so away, if it's the sound of the cab I'm wanting to capture. I'd only use close-micing if there's 'bleed' from other sources; the 57 is fine, but I'd probably prefer my Superlux tom mic. I'd not usually use a bass drum mic, as I would normally be looking rather to differentiate the bass from the bass drum, and would prefer to have a different frequency response from the outset. As a general rule, I'd record as 'flat' as possible, as long as 'bleed' is under control.
So: SM57 and large-diaphragm condenser mic for me (plus DI, of course, in just about every circumstance. Phase inversion may sometimes be necessary...).
Hope this helps.

[SH73]

Wow 1 metre.I read it's between 1-3 feet so 1 metre sounds about right. No bleed for me. The best sound I get is placing the mic just off centre. About 3 inches away. I placed the mic pependicular to the cone with good results. Would you place the mic in the centre one metre away?
Thanks dad☺

[Dad3353]

Again, just a generalisation, but if it's the cab I want to capture, it's not the cone I want. I don't listen to bass with my ear up to the cone, so I don't try to capture that way. For guitar, it's a bit different, but even then, I'd be micing from a distance (usually 1 m or so...), and maybe, just maybe, also adding in a specific 'cone tone' with an E609 suspended from the cab top; especially for a sealed cab. I suppose it depends to some extent how you're playing your bass, too..! If you're playing like a guitar (lots of upper mids, soloing etc...) it may make sense. How do you cope if there's a tweeter in the cab if the cone is close-miced, for instance, or if the cab is ported..?
No, for bass, I'm quite careful in the mic placement, but would do it with trial and listening, rather than any measurement of distance from cone. It may turn out to be centred, but I wouldn't be looking specifically to centre or not. I just listen first, and place the mic where it sounds best to me.
I'd be more concerned as to why the DI component is, it would seem, unused. What's wrong with it that you can't mix it in..? It's not essential, of course, but I'd need a pretty good reason for not wanting any at all in the mix.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Dad3353

[roman_sub]

More pricy, but I'd look into Sennheiser 421. Sounds killer on bass cabs and blends nicely with 57. I like to have one off-axis, and one on-axis... achieving EQ differences via different blends

[SH73]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1461745982' post='3037231']
Again, just a generalisation, but if it's the cab I want to capture, it's not the cone I want. I don't listen to bass with my ear up to the cone, so I don't try to capture that way. For guitar, it's a bit different, but even then, I'd be micing from a distance (usually 1 m or so...), and maybe, just maybe, also adding in a specific 'cone tone' with an E609 suspended from the cab top; especially for a sealed cab. I suppose it depends to some extent how you're playing your bass, too..! If you're playing like a guitar (lots of upper mids, soloing etc...) it may make sense. How do you cope if there's a tweeter in the cab if the cone is close-miced, for instance, or if the cab is ported..?
No, for bass, I'm quite careful in the mic placement, but would do it with trial and listening, rather than any measurement of distance from cone. It may turn out to be centred, but I wouldn't be looking specifically to centre or not. I just listen first, and place the mic where it sounds best to me.
I'd be more concerned as to why the DI component is, it would seem, unused. What's wrong with it that you can't mix it in..? It's not essential, of course, but I'd need a pretty good reason for not wanting any at all in the mix.
[/quote]
I've tried to mix the di but still not happy with di sound.It's not for me.
Thanks for reply

[SH73]

[quote name='roman_sub' timestamp='1461747321' post='3037241']
More pricy, but I'd look into Sennheiser 421. Sounds killer on bass cabs and blends nicely with 57. I like to have one off-axis, and one on-axis... achieving EQ differences via different blends
[/quote]
Rather pricy but good reviews.Do you use two of these?

[charic]

One of the best sounds I managed to get while I was at uni (without using some of the ridiculously price mics...) was a AKG D112 Close and Central and a Large Omnidirectional 1m out. I wouldn't do it in a untreated room though.

Maybe try a AKG D112 @ 6" and a Rode NT1A @ 1m

[roman_sub]

just the one 421. but it's nice blended with 57. If we're getting into slightly more pricy mics, EV RE20 and Beyer T88 also do great job for bass cab micing.

I actually find my favourite bass cab micing sound is achieved by placing the mic about a foot away from the cab. As I have a vertical 2x12 cab, I also found having the mic pointing at the upper speaker sounded better. But all of that is my experience and your preferences, tone requirements may be completely different!

I'll say one thing about the D112 though. I thought about buying one, but ultimately went with other mics because I felt the 112 was too pre-eq'd (can be a good thing for others), and that 421, RE20 and T88 are all more versatile. 421 is a killer instrument mic and T88/RE20 are fantastic vocal mics.

All of that is my opinion and could be complete rubbish

[Dad3353]

If I'm micing a cab, it's exactly because it's the sound of the [i]cab [/i]that I want to capture, and so would want as neutral a 'take' as reasonable. If the 'take' is 'coloured' by the mic, it's no longer possible to judge the final tone by listening to the cab; one has to do a couple of passes and listen to these 'roughs' to hear what will go on the final track. I wouldn't want to do that, usually, so I choose 'flat' by default. Close-micing a cab is, in my view, similar to building in an effect, as that's not what one hears naturally. It may well suit some styles, I don't doubt, but it's not my usual procedure. I certainly wouldn't entertain doing that every time for all; it must create a certain specific tone over whatever is being played. Different folks, different strokes, of course.

[SH73]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1461831990' post='3037923']
One of the best sounds I managed to get while I was at uni (without using some of the ridiculously price mics...) was a AKG D112 Close and Central and a Large Omnidirectional 1m out. I wouldn't do it in a untreated room though.

Maybe try a AKG D112 @ 6" and a Rode NT1A @ 1m
[/quote]
I recorded bass from about 50 cm from speaker. The outcome was outstanding.

[SH73]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1461745982' post='3037231']
Again, just a generalisation, but if it's the cab I want to capture, it's not the cone I want. I don't listen to bass with my ear up to the cone, so I don't try to capture that way. For guitar, it's a bit different, but even then, I'd be micing from a distance (usually 1 m or so...), and maybe, just maybe, also adding in a specific 'cone tone' with an E609 suspended from the cab top; especially for a sealed cab. I suppose it depends to some extent how you're playing your bass, too..! If you're playing like a guitar (lots of upper mids, soloing etc...) it may make sense. How do you cope if there's a tweeter in the cab if the cone is close-miced, for instance, or if the cab is ported..?
No, for bass, I'm quite careful in the mic placement, but would do it with trial and listening, rather than any measurement of distance from cone. It may turn out to be centred, but I wouldn't be looking specifically to centre or not. I just listen first, and place the mic where it sounds best to me.
I'd be more concerned as to why the DI component is, it would seem, unused. What's wrong with it that you can't mix it in..? It's not essential, of course, but I'd need a pretty good reason for not wanting any at all in the mix.
[/quote]
I have tried 50 cm today and the result was outstanding

[Dad3353]

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[SH73]

Thanks everyone.I suppose it takes practice to get it nearly spot on.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='SH73' timestamp='1461876544' post='3038491']
Thanks everyone.I suppose it takes practice to get it nearly spot on.
[/quote]

Yes, it's called 'experience', and just to boost your motivation, know that it's the first forty years that are the worst, after which things sometimes tend to get (very slightly...) better.

[SH73]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1461878376' post='3038516']


Yes, it's called 'experience', and just to boost your motivation, know that it's the first forty years that are the worst, after which things sometimes tend to get (very slightly...) better.
[/quote]
In that case I'm Ok!

[0175westwood29]

i use the akg, gets nice full sound i mic about 40mm from the speaker, i have used the di in the past however i much prefer to use a mic, have considered grabbing something to start dual micing but the d112 comes really close to what is actually coming out of the cab.

i actually got the akg after recording with my band liking the recorded tone we got and finding out it was the akg infront of my cab.

Andy

[Lo-E]

Very nice results can be had mic'ing a bass cab with an SM57, but it would seldom be my first choice. I would always reach for an EV RE20 first. Short of that I'd go with a Senheisser 421 or a Sure SM7. Beyer M88 is another fine choice.

I've never been all that pleased using D112s on bass cabs, personally, unless it was in conjunction with another mic.

[VTypeV4]

I too have little positive experience with AKG D112 on anything - infact they're the only mic I make a point to avoid and have an active dislike for.. An SM57 on the other hand is like a trusty old friend you can rely on. I love the '57 on pretty much any instrument including vocal if push comes to shove..

Just thinking outside the box (and I never recorded it, only used it live) was an AKG D190. Not a big bottom but a lovely warm thickness and great definition with pronounced low mids.. Can be gotten reasoanbly cheap too.

[6v6]

Personally I wouldn't use a kick drum mic on a bass cab - they've often got a baked-in frequency response that's optimized for kick drum that doesn't translate well to bass.

I've got a Shure beta 52a that I have tried, and the results were wooly and indistinct - I got much better results with a SM57 close mic'd, blended with a DI from the amp.

[Byo]

I only used a D112 once and never again.

As others have mentioned, the D112 is only good for kick drums as it is heavily pre EQ'd.
Using the mic for both kick and bass gives you the same pre-EQ shape of both sources and you will need to work on re-EQ'ing your tracks to make them sit in the mix.

I personally use a good DI blended with a large condenser set between 1-3 feet away.

This always depends on the tone I'm looking for pf course.

A close mic'd SM57 with a dirty valve amp mixed with a clean DI has given me great results.

The EV20 is a great mic for bass too.

Trial and error is the only way of understanding what you like best.

Tastes vary and what you may not like, may be tone-heaven for others and vice-versa.

[mike257]

When you're blending mic and DI channels, are you correcting for phase? There will be a small difference in the arrival time of the signal from the mic, this can cause some cancellation when you blend the two. Zoom in on the two tracks and nudge the mic back a few milliseconds so it's in time with the DI. Sometimes the difference is negligible but sometimes it brings it right back to life!

[SH73]

Thanks all for your replies. Financially I'll stick with SM57. I managed to get good results. As per my You Tube video 😉