Maggie May Bass Cockup?

[4stringslow]

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1462096321' post='3040167']
Depressing. Feel is what its about. NOT "note perfect".

Personally, I hate how many people seem to think "the thing" to do is slavishly copy every single nuance of a performance & wind up with this sterile wooden "exact copy" instead of trying to get the same feel.
[/quote]

Absolutely. The (Small)Faces were a fantastic 'feel' band, often so apparently loose that it seemed like a car crash was about to happen, but it never did. Give me this sort of joyous playing instead of note-perfect sterility any day!

[discreet]

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1462096321]We should be aiming at peoples arses more than their ears.
[/quote]

I couldn't agree more.

[AndyTravis]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1462097795' post='3040192']


I couldn't agree more.
[/quote]

My philosophy also. Had a guy ask me once why I'd 'changed' a bassline in a Motown track...I hadn't knowingly changed it, but as we're without a horn section and a keys player, I'd added bits in to fill the gaps. He was almost aggrieved - asked him when his band was next playing "i haven't got one..." Enough said.

[Oopsdabassist]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1462097473' post='3040187']
Absolutely. The (Small)Faces were a fantastic 'feel' band, often so apparently loose that it seemed like a car crash was about to happen, but it never did. Give me this sort of joyous playing instead of note-perfect sterility any day!
[/quote]

Hell Yeah!!

[FinnDave]

[quote name='4stringslow' timestamp='1462097473' post='3040187']
Absolutely. The (Small)Faces were a fantastic 'feel' band, often so apparently loose that it seemed like a car crash was about to happen, but it never did. Give me this sort of joyous playing instead of note-perfect sterility any day!
[/quote]

Too right!

[Highfox]

IMO, it's a great bassline and it takes a bit of skill and feel to noodle it that nicely.
Never realised it was orgionally a B-side and guess that's why they left it fairly loose like that.

[casapete]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1462094627' post='3040152']
When I first bought 'Every Picture tells A Story', I remember being flabbergasted at how loose and shambolic the whole feel of the album was. I thought to myself. 'they all sound like they're drunk'. I was so shocked and disappointed (especially by the bass playing on Maggie May), I didn't play the album again for a year.

A year later I thought I'd give the album another chance and this time I was charmed by the ragged, looseness of the playing. And by the way, according to interviews Rod has made over the years, my first impression was spot on, they were all totally pished when they made the album.

Edit: and looking at the musicians who played on that track, it was Ronnie Wood playing bass. Which explains a lot.
[/quote]
Ronnie Wood had played bass on a couple of albums with Jeff Beck and toured with him prior to forming The Faces with Rod.
Just sayin'....

Edited May 1, 2016 by casapete

[discreet]

[quote name='Highfox' timestamp='1462100386' post='3040217']
Never realised it was originally a B-side and guess that's why they left it fairly loose like that.
[/quote]

At that time if the feel was right then a bum note or two wasn't the complete disaster that it's seen to be now. Plus it was harder and more risky to fix a single note back then. I blame Pro Tools. It's so easy to fix things that it's done as a matter of course.

[media]http://youtu.be/NfjArsHmtlY[/media]

Edited May 1, 2016 by discreet

[casapete]

+1 .
I'd go for the feel over perfection every time.

[FinnDave]

If it feels right, it is right.

Or should that be on the reality thread?

[chris_b]

I reckon this is Ronnie Wood just "noodling", probably fuelled by a lot of brandy, and of course it works, even though it's a "lead guitar" bass line. They never tried to do another bass line like that, or maybe they tried and it didn't work. It really is a one-off line. There are a few "bum" notes but he get away with most of them.

It wouldn't have any of the "charm" if played by anyone else. Which is probably why when Ronnie Lane played it live he played it straight.

Ronnie Lane knew when to leave well alone. The best plan IMO.

[gjones]

[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1462101776' post='3040230']
Ronnie Wood had played bass on a couple of albums with Jeff Beck and toured with him prior to forming The Faces with Rod.
Just sayin'....
[/quote]

It's not his bass playing I'm referring to, it's his daily alcohol/pharmaceutical intake (I mean you know you've got a problem, when Keith Richards starts lecturing you on your drug and alcohol use).

[JTUK]

Played it for the first time the other week.... funnily enough... with a Rod Stewart act...and you just have to make the line move a bit.
There are a few standard bits which you'll get if you've heard the track before but I think a good version is from Letterman.

[chris_b]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1462104880' post='3040265']
There are a few standard bits which you'll get if you've heard the track before but I think a good version is from Letterman.
[/quote]

Good call. All the right bits joined up with proper bass playing.

[luckydog]

[QUOTE]FinnDave said:

Of no particular relevance, I was having a drink last week with the former Lindisfarne member who played mandolin on Maggie May. I could ask him about the bass next time I see him. [/QUOTE]Hey FinnDave, that's cool. Do it ! That bassline is well worthy of knowing it's story.......

LD

[Oopsdabassist]

[quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1462117400' post='3040383']
Hey FinnDave, that's cool. Do it ! That bassline is well worthy of knowing it's story.......

LD
[/quote]

Agreed!!

[oldbass]

That 'loose' feel is 50% the song for me....and strangely enough kinda difficult to emulate...brilliant tune. and don't forget 'U Wear It Well'......equally brill.

[arthurhenry]

"I laughed at all of your jokes,
My love you didn't need to coax"

Appallingly bad lyrics.

[FinnDave]

[quote name='luckydog' timestamp='1462117400' post='3040383']
Hey FinnDave, that's cool. Do it ! That bassline is well worthy of knowing it's story.......

LD
[/quote]

I'll ask him when I see him again (bearing in mind that Maggie May has been the source of some bitterness over the year!).

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1462094627' post='3040152']
... loose and shambolic ... 'they all sound like they're drunk'.
[/quote]

That's a fairly good description of The Faces.

Check out Stewart's announcement at 17.25 ... '[i]Miss Judy's Farm[/i], it goes like this ... very similar to this anyway'

Shambolic, but rocking and funky.

http://youtu.be/1xHBjeiqzkQ

Edited May 1, 2016 by EssentialTension

[casapete]

Great stuff.
Both Ronnie Lane and Mac sorely missed. Any Faces reunion now would be pushing it I feel.

[ivansc]

OP I didn`t intend to say that YOU were slavish,y copying or indeed picking things to pieces - just that an awful lot of players do.
I just have a thing about groove and feel.
Started a thread on the old Sound on Sound forum years ago that run to about a gazillion pages on just that subject.

And there too it really polarised peoples opinions.
Feel versus technique.
I still think you need both but sadly with the shrinking number of opportunities to play in really crap starting-out bands* and actually get a gig to hone your chops in both areas, it makes it very difficult for less experienced players to "get" the point of feel and groove. Hard to learn how to groove on your own in your bedroom, especially on bass


*C`mon, guys - we all started out that way.

[MrDaveTheBass]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1462101853' post='3040231']
At that time if the feel was right then a bum note or two wasn't the complete disaster that it's seen to be now. Plus it was harder and more risky to fix a single note back then. I blame Pro Tools. It's so easy to fix things that it's done as a matter of course.

[/quote]

There's an excellent BBC 'Arena' documentary on Brian Eno. In it, Eno makes a wonderful analogy between Pro Tools and Playdoh: In the 'old days' a 'warts-and-all' recording would be like lots of different brightly-coloured bits of Playdoh - the quality came from the feel and variety. Now, because it's so easy to pitch-shift and quantize every note until it's 'perfect', it's the equivalent of mashing all your different Playdoh colours together into one homogenized, sh1t-brown lump.

Edited May 4, 2016 by MrDaveTheBass

[lojo]

It's one of those rare songs , like London Calling , where it's all about a wonderfully odd bass line

[FinnDave]

[quote name='MrDaveTheBass' timestamp='1462356416' post='3042284']
Now, because it's so easy to pitch-shift and quantize every note until it's 'perfect', it's the equivalent of mashing all your different Playdoh colours together into one homogenized, sh1t-brown lump.
[/quote]

Which is exactly what the few bits of modern music I've been subjected sound like.